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Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by hexadecimal7e on Thursday July 12, 2018 @02:08AM (#17512512)
The problems with tech companies are not that they are big, but people follow them blindly.

These companies only work for making money and are not around to help people.

This other day a journalist asked a big computer game producing company why they are selling in-game stuff to kids (like Overwatch). They refused to answer. They are not around to help people.

A hospital in Tanzania was in dire need for an upgrade of there IT-system connecting a X-ray machine to doctors for image analysis. They had no budget. 2 helpful guys from Europe searched the Webb for free software. On there free time they built a system which they installed themselves. The big companies are not around to help people.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by wilsonnb2 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @09:34AM (#17514308)
In 2016, Google donated $167 million in cash and $1 billion in their own products to charitable causes.

Microsoft - $135 million in cash, $922 million in product

Cisco - $41 million in cash, $245 million in product

AT&T - $112 million in cash, $7 million in product

Verizon - $56 million in cash, $32 million in product

While these companies are around primarily to make a profit, I'm sure that their $460 million dollars in cash donations sure helped a lot of people. Not to mention all the jobs they create (also helping people), the wealth they generate for their shareholders (also helping people), and the individual charitable donations of those shareholders.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-generous-companies-in-am...

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by fredley on Thursday July 12, 2018 @09:59AM (#17514617)
A viewpoint: charity is power. These companies have control over where this money goes, and are likely to spend more on things that make them look good, or provide long term benefit to the company over things that don't.

Another approach might be to take the charity money away from the companies, and have those funds distributed to worthy causes by a democratically appointed body instead: giving the money to causes that benefit everyone, not just the company's PR department. You could call this system 'taxation'.

A case study: Flint water. Nobody's done anything about it for years. Now there's a PR opportunity so Elon's going to fix it. The people of Flint will get drinkable water (hopefully) and Elon will get another PR lift. This problem could have been fixed years ago (and perhaps should never even have happened), but the people who decide when these big social problems get fixed is no longer the people (almost all of whom think it's an unacceptable travesty, especially in a rich, developed nation), but the billionaire class, who require something back in return.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by wilsonnb2 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:16AM (#17514816)
> A viewpoint: charity is power. These companies have control over where this money goes, and are likely to spend more on things that make them look good, or provide long term benefit to the company over things that don't.

They are more likely to spend it on things that make them look good, which has absolutely nothing to do with my point that these companies are helping people, even if their primary goal is not to help people.

> Another approach might be to take the charity money away from the companies, and have those funds distributed to worthy causes by a democratically appointed body instead: giving the money to causes that benefit everyone, not just the company's PR department. You could call this system 'taxation'.

All of these companies are taxed, according to the rules set by the democratically appointed body you mention. I don't understand why you included this part of your comment.

> This problem could have been fixed years ago (and perhaps should never even have happened), but the people who decide when these big social problems get fixed is no longer the people (almost all of whom think it's an unacceptable travesty, especially in a rich, developed nation), but the billionaire class, who require something back in return.

Just so I have this straight - you're saying the reason that the people of Flint haven't had their water problems fixed yet is because the billionaire class only cares about getting something in return from such an action?

I'd like you to tell me what exactly you think should have been done in Flint and how the billionaire class subverted the will of the American people by not doing it.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by Caillebotte on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:40AM (#17515037)
Yes, I agree they are helping people. But who are they helping? They don't seem to be helping the little people like that Tanzanian hospital the way the developers did who found a free software solution. It seems we weaponize situations of desperate need in order to accomplish our own means. If these companies truly cared for the people they are helping, they wouldn't even bother with the PR side of it at all. Their help certainly makes a huge difference, I agree, but intention is everything, and if they intend to aid their own purposes, that is what will see the most benefit from their efforts.
Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by wilsonnb2 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:45AM (#17515107)
> intention is everything

I'm sure the people that received Google's millions of dollars would disagree with that statement.

> If these companies truly cared for the people they are helping, they wouldn't even bother with the PR side of it at all.

Why? Does getting good PR from helping someone diminish the help that said person receives?

> if they intend to aid their own purposes, that is what will see the most benefit from their efforts.

I have not once disagreed with this statement - companies primary goal is to make a profit. However, they also provide a tremendous amount of help to those who need it and I don't think people should dismiss that so easily.

> They don't seem to be helping the little people like that Tanzanian hospital the way the developers did who found a free software solution.

It's easier for us to grasp a situation in which a few developers help out a few people who need it. It's not easy for us to parse "$150 million in charitable donations" in the same way, but I assure you there are thousands of "helping the little guy" stories you can craft out of $150 million.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by s73v3r_ on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:39PM (#17516292)
"Just so I have this straight - you're saying the reason that the people of Flint haven't had their water problems fixed yet is because the billionaire class only cares about getting something in return from such an action?"

Musk could have easily acted back when it happened. He didn't.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by s73v3r_ on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:38PM (#17516283)
Pedantic point: Elon's not going to fix Flint's water. He's going to offer to install filters on people's homes.
Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by hanshan on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:11AM (#17515400)
That's a lot like saying FB and GOOG are charitable because they give their products away for "free". How much money/data are those product donations extracting from the people they donated to?
Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by wilsonnb2 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:41AM (#17515671)
It's not like saying that. This is literally Google donating money to charity. That's the definition of being charitable.

Even so, many would agree that Facebook and Google are charitable for giving their products away for free even if they extract value from them in other ways.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by hanshan on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:43AM (#17515695)
>This is literally Google donating money to charity.

I specifically said "product" donations.

>Even so, many would agree that Facebook and Google are charitable for giving their products away for free

And they would be ignorant of the value of their information, attention spans, and technology in general. Many such people would also agree that "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about"

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by Jyaif on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:01PM (#17515869)
Why are companies allowed to give money to charities? Aren't they supposed to only try to make profit?
Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by vorpalhex on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:18AM (#17514840)
That's what a company does. That is the entire purpose of a company. They don't owe any social good, they are a profit seeking entity.

If you don't agree with a given company, stop giving them profit. Don't like Facebook? Stop using it. Don't care for Microsoft? Stop buying Windows and Office.

The only other option for controlling companies is government control - that has never worked out well longterm.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by atlantic on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:37AM (#17515013)
I'm not sure those are the only two options. Pure capitalism and central control are more like two extremes on a continuum. There is a lot of work being done at the moment to get companies to accept a certain degree of social responsibility for the externalities relating to their activities - things like environmental impact, for instance. So there is an intermediate way forward.
Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by vorpalhex on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:31AM (#17515571)
I barely trust Facebook/Microsoft/et al. at an arms length. The last thing I want is them aggressively making choices about what kind of content is ok or not - it seems easy to censor Nazi's but what about brexitors or pro-firearms talk?

Add in a government compulsion to crack down on "bad speech" and we've circumvented free speech. Facebook has a right to not allow some content, but when Governments start setting standards across companies, what then?

In the UK, firearms talk is basically verboten. In the US, that's protected speech. Whose rules does Facebook follow? Or do we have a separate UK facebook?

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by ionised on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:17AM (#17515444)
> They don't owe any social good

Where is this written?

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by vorpalhex on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:33AM (#17515596)
Does the private citizen owe social good?

Unless you have a clear argument that all people have a prima facie duty to always do social good (mandatory volunteering?) then it seems very difficult to claim there's a special duty when multiple people group together. Does that duty affect the bake shop up the road? The bookshop that employs 20 people?

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by ionised on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:19PM (#17516047)
I believe everybody part of a society has a responsibility minimise or prevent the harm they do, and this idea that corporations should not have any form of social conscience is actually a fairly recent one.

The idea that they are legally obliged only to maximise shareholder value is also a myth I'm pretty sure.

We can blame hacks like Friedman for that. His warped ideology doesn't jive with reality.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by vorpalhex on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:38PM (#17516285)
> The idea that they are legally obliged only to maximise shareholder value is also a myth I'm pretty sure.

The CEO and other officers of a company have a stated, legal requirement to act in the companies best interest in regards to the shareholders. All commercial companies (let's ignore non-profits and such for a moment) are founded to generate profit for their shareholders since that is what in turn attracts shareholders.

> I believe everybody part of a society has a responsibility minimise or prevent the harm they do

That's a nice belief and it'd be great if it was true - but that's not an argument for an a priori duty to do social good. Let's just imagine for a moment that you, yourself, are legally obligated to do social good. What does that look like? Do you have a minimum amount of hours per week you're forced to do free work (eg, forced labor)? Can you get out of that by being forced to give some money to charity (eg, taxes)? What are the punishments if you don't execute your duty? Jail?

Imagine that system scaled up and applied just to everyone - each person individually. Forced labor, some kind of weird mandatory charity tax thing, and the threat of punishment if you don't comply - is that the kind of world you want to live in?

It's easy to demand other people do good. It's much harder to do good ourselves when it's our own time and money.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by nojvek on Thursday July 12, 2018 @09:14AM (#17514074)
Big companies are on the stock market with CEO’s who want to turn in a profit so market share goes higher. If they don’t do that, they get replaced.

Tech is especially dangerous since it can automate vast amounts of things with very few people if capital is there.

It just makes me really sad how non-existent Seattle startup industry is compared to the valley. Almost everyone here works at the Big Cos Microsoft and Amazon.

Re:Have the Tech Giants Grown Too Powerful? by wolfgke on Thursday July 12, 2018 @09:38AM (#17514360)
> These companies only work for making money and are not around to help people.

This has nothing to do with tech companies.