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Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by andybak on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @09:08PM (#17511490)
> This is literal fascism - and I'm not just being hyperbolic. reply

Tragic that you have enough insight to realise you might be misusing either "literal" or "fascism" and not enough to pull yourself back from the brink...

I know "fascism" has been misused to the point of meaninglessness but can we all agree there has to be at least a small amount of - I don't know - death or torture involved - before we wheel out the big guns?

Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by jerkstate on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @09:16PM (#17511511)
Here's a summary of Mussolini's Fascist Manifesto, lifted directly from Wikipedia:

Politically, the Manifesto calls for:

Universal suffrage with a lowered voting age to 18 years, and voting and electoral office eligibility for all age 25 and up; Proportional representation on a regional basis; Voting for women (which was then opposed by most other European nations); Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector; The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the Senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown); The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers.

In labor and social policy, the Manifesto calls for:

The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers; A minimum wage; The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions; To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants; Reorganization of the railways and the transport sector; Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance; Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the Manifesto advocates:

Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities; Armaments factories are to be nationalized; A peaceful but competitive foreign policy. In finance, the Manifesto advocates:

A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth); The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor; Revision of all contracts for military provisions; The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.

Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by Latteland on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @10:02PM (#17511668)
Okay, but he came with a healthy dose of putting people in prison, murder, actions in Africa that were reprehensible. I'm not sure I get your point. Facism's official goals don't match what they did?
Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by jerkstate on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @10:12PM (#17511699)
My point is that "fascism" is used interchangably for "oppressive government" when it's not the same thing. There are many systems of government that put people in prison, murdered, and did bad things in Africa besides fascism. What's your point?
Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by nkozyra on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @11:14PM (#17511926)
While this is a fair point for general systems of government, in this case you have to reconcile the creator's words with his actions.

You have to take the whole story here. If I create a document that describes my system of governance as X but execute it as Y isn't it disingenuous to ignore Y?

Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by jerkstate on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:42AM (#17512229)
Really I was making a point about the definition of fascism and how it's mis-applied these days. But if you want to talk about how it has been executed, history shows us when people cede so many of their natural rights to the state, even for good causes or causes that sound good, it's just a matter of time before those powers granted to the state by its people are abused by agents of the state.
Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by Latteland on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:40AM (#17512221)
My point to the second poster above (jerkstate), supporting nkozyra says, is that what the jerkstate above says about italian facism, much like soviet communism was far away from it's goals and claims. Both govts, who fought against each other during ww2 of course, murdered and oppressed and killed thousands (or was it millions in italy?) and definitely millions in the ussr. There were very few people in those countries whose lives ended up being well treated and having freedom until the govts were destroyed. The vast majority had a negative experience. By only listing the top level goals of how italian fascism would work and listing none of the horrible negatives you are making at least a confusing and misleading point. Could it have meant to be irony? Those who rightly point out the problems of US society, like jim crow repression of blacks, genocide toward native americans should also talk about how we had ideals, yet we couldn't fix slavery without a civil war, we still struggle today to deal with oppression of minorities, but we also have high ideals about how people should be treated. But if you just gave the decl. of independence and compared it to those fascist ideals, well you'd be incredibly misleading in the reality of the countries and I found your comments incredibly misleading.
Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by reefoctopus on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @10:21PM (#17511720)
Fascism doesn’t start with torture and death. The word has certainly been misused, but it is an apt description of the ideology guiding the trump administration. The most common definition includes these 14 points:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Copied from: https://rense.com/general37/char.htm

Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by paulddraper on Thursday July 12, 2018 @10:13AM (#17514790)
That's a definition by a political group (libertarian).

Definitions by historians differ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions

Re:FCC Proposes Changing Comment System After WSJ Found Thou... by reefoctopus on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:00AM (#17572826)
I’m aware. That set of characteristics is more straightforward than other definitions I’ve come across. Umberto Eco’s definition is commonly used but requires more context. There’s actually an entire Wikipedia page devoted to different definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism