Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by the_af on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @06:05PM
(#17510639)
If I understood the talk correctly, except for the OOP+FP part, DeGoes seems to be arguing out of practicality, not correctness. He correctly argues, for example, that "FP + OOP in a concise language" is irrelevant as a marketing/business speech for Scala. He seemed to me to actually want to make those compromises and engineering decisions you mention, while maybe admitting that the existing ones are not as successful as initially hoped for.
Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by cageface on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @06:02PM
(#17510619)
This is exactly what drove me out of the lisp community. There are just too many people that insist on seeing engineering decisions between different sets of trade offs as stark choices between good and evil. Go read some of Eric Naggum’s rants for a really extreme example of this syndrome.
Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by fjsolwmv on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @07:25PM
(#17511041)
Eric Naggum was one loud extremist. He wasn't the community, but he was so loud and rude (which unfortunately entertains people) that he was was what people thought the community was.
Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by kazinator on Thursday July 12, 2018 @02:34PM
(#17517347)
"The Lisp community" is purely an imaginary construct that only exists because you want it to.
"Community" is largely a toxic concept anyway.
Oh, we have to have a community. Community this, community that. Nice project, but where is your community? I can't write a line of code without a community!
Tired of "community".
Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by cageface on Friday July 13, 2018 @12:06AM
(#17520451)
Nice to see that nothing has changed.
Re:The Last Hope for Scala's Infinity War [video]
by kazinator on Friday July 13, 2018 @09:23AM
(#17522705)
You're still seething with hostility with regard to the conditions of a Usenet newsgroup fifteen years ago that is only very lightly active now. Reddit has r/Lisp which is more active and very different from old c.l.l. (Not that it's reasonable to equate r/Lisp with "Lisp community", either.)
Proposition for discussion (i.e., I don't necessarily believe this, but I don't necessarily not either): The biggest challenge facing languages and their communities that focus on correctness is that the very personality types that are willing to focus on them are also statistically much more likely to be, ah, potentially less suited to the sorts of compromises and engineering discussions that are necessary to make a personal language than other more pragmatic communities. The sort of relatively uncompromising spirit necessary to swim upstream against the current general consensus of very pragmatic programming nearly entirely unconcerned with academic-type correctness is, well... uncompromising.