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Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by chimeracoder on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @03:44PM (#17501438)
The Arch User Repository hosts whatever people want to upload to it, with basically no proactive vetting whatsoever. In addition, the installation scripts run arbitrary code, a portion of which must run with root privileges. When a package gets orphaned, that means that anybody in the community can take over maintainership of the package.

There's a whole lot of trust that has to go on when installing a package from the AUR - and yes, this is a fundamental problem with the security model of Arch Linux, but that's been known for a very long time.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if this hasn't happened before with orphaned packages.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by LukeShu on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:22PM (#17501770)
> yes, this is a fundamental problem with the security model of Arch Linux

No, it's not. AUR is not Arch, and is not "supported" by Arch.

It's a fundamental problem with the security model running code from randos on the internet. If someone published a git repo on GitHub that installed malware when you ran

    git clone git://github.com/user/repo . && ./configure && make && sudo make install
you wouldn't be saying that "this is a fundamental problem with the security model of git."

From the AUR homepage, in big text:

> AUR packages are user produced content. Any use of the provided files is at your own risk.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by massysett on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @08:28PM (#17503435)
AUR has the word "Arch" in its name and is linked right at the top of the Arch Linux homepage and from every Arch Linux webpage. So it's disingenuous to claim it is "not Arch.”

Contrast this to the old debian-multimedia, which had no links from Debian.org and which eventually yielded to pressure to change its name to make clear that it was not part of Debian.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by arendtio on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @06:05PM (#17502618)
Just to emphasize how little AUR is supported by Arch:

Even the 'AUR helpers' aren't part of the normal Arch repositories. So if you wan't a less manual access to the AUR you have to install such a program manually.

And the Arch Wiki states:

  Warning: AUR helpers are not supported by Arch Linux. It is recommended to become familiar with the manual build process in order to be prepared to troubleshoot problems on one's own. [1]
[1]: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_helpers
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by cakes on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:50PM (#17502503)
I understand your point but the problem is that the title is "Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware" (and not, for example: "AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware"). I would argue that the implication (I guess reputation-wise if that matters) starts with the "Arch Linux" part. It's easy to jump on Arch because of this regardless of the fact that the AUR is not supported. At a cursory glance plenty of people (though incorrect) will equate this to "Arch Linux contains malware"
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by otterlicious on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @06:41PM (#17502838)
This isn't unique to Linux.

Most people would read "Apple App Store Found to Contain Malware" as "Apple Devices Found to Contain Malware" too.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by skolemtotem on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @09:44PM (#17503813)
The App Store is closer to the official Arch repos, since it is vetted by Apple. The AUR is closer to just downloading stuff off the Internet.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by xiii1408 on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:25PM (#17502320)
AUR PKGBUILDs are much more restricted than this, since they're restricted to a fakeroot.

Of course, if you're ultimately going to run the program, the binary set up by the PKGBUILD has a lot of control. But the PKGBUILD itself is limited in what it can do (to things like listing your installed packages, getting `uname -a`--the stuff mentioned in the article).

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by LukeShu on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @06:02PM (#17502598)
No. Whatever you stick in the install= file will run as root at install time. If you're using an AUR helper/running `makepkg -i`, the PKGBUILD absolutely can run code as root, without waiting for you to interact with the installed program. Installing a package from a PKGBUILD is no more or no less "powerful" to an attacker than `make && sudo make install`.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by xiii1408 on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @01:54PM (#17508870)
The install hooks are chrooted inside the pacman install directory.

But, yeah, they run as root, so they can still do damage.

My point was that the danger zone is when you trust the package, rather than when you run the PKGBUILD itself with `makepkg`. Of course `makepkg -i` runs both `makepkg` and `pacman` as root.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by Latty on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:08PM (#17501628)
> this is a fundamental problem with the security model of Arch Linux

And with every other OS that isn't locked down so the user can't run arbitrary stuff.

The AUR is just the arch equivalent of downloading a `.exe` installer and running it. Yes, clearly there are security concerns there, but they aren't specific to Arch.

If you want a level of trust, then don't build AUR packages and install things using the package manager (AUR packages aren't supported by it) which have trusted maintainers and are signed.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by tomn on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:22PM (#17501768)
> this is a fundamental problem with the security model of Arch Linux, but that's been known for a very long time

It's exactly the same problem that every other distro has when users compile or install unvetted community packages.

The only way to make unvetted community repositories safe is to have users look at the sources before building or installing. Arch encourages users to do that -- AUR helpers and binary repositories are discouraged, and the source package format is simple enough that an average user could probably spot something like this.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dozzie on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @03:48PM (#17501459)
The thing is not that it's a new deficiency or something, it's just that Arch user conveniently ignore this when praising their distribution over e.g. Debian.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by mateuszf on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @03:58PM (#17501531)
AUR repository isn't supported by the core tools and packages. To use it one has to install external scripts. So it's by no means part of the system.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by zanny on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:37PM (#17501918)
All it takes to build air packages is makepkg from the core pacman package. With gut you can grab aur packages from the terminal, and hit is also core. Every Arch install must have pacman and hit is in base-devel, a package group in core all AUR pkgbuilds are designed to assume is installed.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by mar77i on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:10PM (#17501643)
Urm, you need git, you need build tools... and pacman.

That's it. But oh yeah, because I do these things by hand and check whether the source urls point to the place I'd actually like to install (and other code doesn't download external sources, eg. in the PKGBUILD or external scripts like *.install files), I'm suddenly an exception.

I just noticed that the blue used on the Archlinux logo is actually quite consistent with Rick's hair color. https://i.imgur.com/kkE25w2.jpg Fits me. I don't give a damn.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by Foxboron on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:30PM (#17501858)
I'll assure you Rick has a blue-grayish color while the Arch logo is Navy Blue.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dozzie on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:23PM (#17501779)
Which, as I said, very conveniently is glossed over by Arch users.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by JackCh on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:41PM (#17501956)
That's a problem with Arch users, not with Arch. It's unfortunately common that fanboys undermine the reputation of reasonable software.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dozzie on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:48PM (#17502022)
Oh yes, it is a problem with the users, not the software itself, but you don't get to separate the two in the case of an OS or distribution.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by JackCh on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:08PM (#17502179)
> "but you don't get to separate the two in the case of an OS or distribution."

Actually I do get to do that. It's an important distinction because if the software isn't at fault, then a technically competent user can safely use it by merely not being as dumb as the average user. But if the software itself is at fault, then the technically competent user should stay clear of it. Idiots will be idiots no matter the distribution. If it weren't arch, they might be downloading third party RPMs or debs from untrusted sources. Would that be reason for a technically competent person to avoid RHEL or Debian? Of course not.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dozzie on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:31PM (#17502371)
> It's an important distinction because if the software isn't at fault, [...]

Though the software is at fault. It created a false sense of security, misleading the users. What else in Arch just feels secure, but in fact is not?

And then, if the users around the software generally exhibit a jockey attitude, you get the whole environment built in a similar manner, not a robust one. The software may technically not be at fault and technically could be used in a safe manner, but you won't get much exposure to that, any such use will be cumbersome and difficult (because nobody uses it this way), so you still should stay clear of the software. So no, you don't get to separate the users and the OS/distribution.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by m45t3r on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:59PM (#17502573)
> Though the software is at fault. It created a false sense of security, misleading the users. What else in Arch just feels secure, but in fact is not?

AUR never tried to pass false sense of security, it is explicitly declared as not supported everywhere.

> And then, if the users around the software generally exhibit a jockey attitude, you get the whole environment built in a similar manner, not a robust one. The software may technically not be at fault and technically could be used in a safe manner, but you won't get much exposure to that, any such use will be cumbersome and difficult (because nobody uses it this way), so you still should stay clear of the software. So no, you don't get to separate the users and the OS/distribution.

Except it is not, experienced users of Arch community vocally recommends new users to not blindly trust AUR, and the dangers of AUR is also documented everywhere. This is also one of the reasons that yaourt is shamed in public Arch communities like /r/archlinux, since it defaults to poor security behavior.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dozzie on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @10:44AM (#17507329)
> AUR never tried to pass false sense of security, it is explicitly declared as not supported everywhere.

Funny that I only ever hear of this when talking about security aspects, not when discussing available software. In the latter case I always hear how many things are there in AUR, especially comparing to Debian. AUR must have failed miserably in not trying to pass false sense of security.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by m45t3r on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:33AM (#17515583)
> Funny that I only ever hear of this when talking about security aspects, not when discussing available software. In the latter case I always hear how many things are there in AUR, especially comparing to Debian. AUR must have failed miserably in not trying to pass false sense of security.

One argument does not invalidate the other. It is true that tons of software are available in AUR that is not easily available in other distros. It is also true that AUR is not supported.

A similar thing happens with PPAs in Ubuntu or even with Flatpak/Snaps: they brings tons of additional software to the distro, however they're unsupported and can be security nightmares [1].

[1]:Yeah, even when Flatpak/Snaps are properly sandbox (since some apps are not), they can include software to mine cryptocurrencies for example.

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by dvfjsdhgfv on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @03:55PM (#17501506)
Fortunately admins are not unreasonable and don't base their decisions on praises but on actual merits, so most servers run Debian rather than Arch (which is an interesting distro for other usage cases).
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by farresito on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:02PM (#17501567)
Who would want to use a rolling release distribution for a (production) server? Sounds like a pretty terrible choice, to be quite honest.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by cmiles74 on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:27PM (#17501828)
Maybe you could make the case for some cutting edge development or test box, but then again, I'd rather be testing on something that's as close to identical to the production environment as possible.

I used Arch on my laptop (primarily used for development) for several years. It mostly worked great and I always had access to the newest whatever with a minimum of hassle. I don't have many complaints, but occasionally after an update something critical would stop working.

I'm on Solus now and, so far, it's been pretty great. :-)

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by Foxboron on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:33PM (#17501878)
All of the Arch Linux infrastructure is run on Arch. Works pretty well.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by JackCh on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:38PM (#17501927)
There is an expectation that projects dogfood their own software, but I really can't think of a rational reason for a production server not affiliated with the Arch project to be running Arch.

Rolling release is great for technically competent users to install on their workstations, but why would you ever want a rolling release on a production server?

Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by Foxboron on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:48PM (#17502023)
You wouldn't. The only reason why we run it is because we know it. I wouldn't have used Arch on any production things personally.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday July 11, 2018 @11:06AM (#17507483)
Well, one thing which I know of several projects doing, is having an Arch server as one of the continuous testing servers. This way you can test against bleeding edge gcc/glibc/whatnot and catch bugs or breaking API changes long before they appear in major distros.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by walrus01 on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @04:40PM (#17501941)
Nobody that values their job or sleeping well at night. It's basically one level of nuts above and beyond running Debian Sid on all your production servers.
Re:Arch Linux AUR Repository Found to Contain Malware by hultner on Tuesday July 10, 2018 @05:28PM (#17502344)
I ran SID in a embedded customer box testing unreleased software, I did run it in KVM from a stable release since I wouldn’t have physical access if something went wrong, glad I did.