News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by gscott on Sunday July 08, 2018 @07:19AM (#17483227)
I feel this is important, one of the things China has felt they have been held back on is chip production, especially something like the x86 and x64 chips. Now they are good to go on something that is a national priority. They can produce hundreds of thousands of cpu's as many as they want now with no limitations from the US Government since now they can do it locally.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by ksec on Sunday July 08, 2018 @07:37AM (#17483294)
>one of the things China has felt they have been held back on is chip production

Not sure what you mean by held back, As far as we cant tell, ignoring all the JV and shares, this is basically AMD making their EPYC chip in TSMC specially for Chinese Market.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by baybal2 on Monday July 09, 2018 @02:47AM (#17488402)
>As far as we cant tell, ignoring all the JV and shares, this is basically AMD making their EPYC chip in TSMC specially for Chinese Market.

Yes, basically Chinese paid near $300m just for the right to put own label on it, and distribution rights.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by Waterluvian on Monday July 09, 2018 @03:19AM (#17488505)
Shame on me. I read the title and flat out assumed China was stealing the IP.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by acct1771 on Monday July 09, 2018 @03:26AM (#17488531)
Yeah, I don't think you can be blamed for that one at all...
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by gaius on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:25AM (#17488736)
one of the things China has felt they have been held back on is chip production

Really? They have a decent MIPS story there, have had for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawning_Information_Industry#D...

They could literally have ignored x86, but they are making the same strategic blunder the UK made in the 1980s

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by scruffyherder on Monday July 09, 2018 @12:35PM (#17491467)
I've been trying to find one on and off for a year. I wonder if they ever made more than a production sample.

It looks more like some kind of threat / showing off than a product that you can buy. Email and phone calls go unanswered regarding buying one of these.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by userbinator on Monday July 09, 2018 @07:45AM (#17489506)
Yes, MIPS is everywhere in all sorts of consumer devices like routers and cheap Android phones/tablets, but it lacks performance, and also compatibility with existing software.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by gaius on Monday July 09, 2018 @09:09AM (#17489891)
See the second link - they are using MIPS for HPC so it’s performance must be adequate
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by seanmcdirmid on Monday July 09, 2018 @09:52AM (#17490115)
MIPS had been used in HPC applications in the past. It’s just an ISA, like x86 or ARM, and (these days) has less to do with performance than the CPU architecture and process user to FAB it. Heck, they could even bring back 68k’s and make them work well enough.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by phire on Monday July 09, 2018 @10:25AM (#17490360)
Yep, all you need to do is build a massive out-of-order superscalar pipeline with 8 to 10 execution ports and a very large reorder buffer (150 to 200 uops). And idealy toss in hypertreadding.

Intel has done it with x86, IBM have done it with POWER, AMD have done it with x86 (more or less independently to Intel), Sun/Oracle have done it with SPARC, Apple have done it with ARM and most recently it looks like ARM's Cortex A76 is joining the league.

All these designs look very similar, they are basically variatins on the same archtechure with different front ends.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by pabloski on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:30AM (#17488748)
Yes it is important for competition. But this gives x86 another century of survival. Seriously, someone kill x86 please!
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by TheSpiceIsLife on Monday July 09, 2018 @04:40AM (#17488777)
If you use any complex tool enough you will rapidly come up against its limitations and bizarre design implementations.

Is there any reason to believe any other architure that tries to be, approximately, everything for everyone would fair any better?

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by krylon on Monday July 09, 2018 @06:17AM (#17489189)
Never underestimate the value of backward compatibility.

Any architecture that wants to take a decent swing at replacing x86 will either have to be x86-compatible or do a good job at emulating it accurately and efficiently.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by lawnchair_larry on Monday July 09, 2018 @08:39AM (#17489754)
No it won’t. ARM has already displaced it pretty heavily and will continue to do so.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by krylon on Monday July 09, 2018 @10:41AM (#17490476)
Is "displaced" the correct term, though?

In mobile devices, ARM has an almost(?)-monopoly indeed, but x86 never was a serious contender in that space to begin with. The same goes for "IoT" devices. In new areas of computing, Intel is just one vendor among many (well, several), and the more the market tends to demand low-power chips, Intel's advantage melts away. In that sense, I agree with you. In HPC, I could see ARM become a serious alternative, because the trend seems to be to delegate the heavy lifting to GPUs, anyway, and the GPU does not care what kind of CPU feeds it, so to speak.

But in the traditional desktop area, if you cannot run Windows and the huge number of third-party applications available there, you might as well give up. And to completely "replace" x86/x64, you have to compete in the desktop market as well.

Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by asaka on Monday July 09, 2018 @02:17AM (#17488314)
China have Zhaoxin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhaoxin) which can produce X86 chips already.
Re:China Begins Production Of x86 Processors Based On AMD's IP by dvfjsdhgfv on Monday July 09, 2018 @03:12AM (#17488475)
In terms of performance, VIA Nano and EPYC are hardly comparable.