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Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by ajnin on Thursday July 05, 2018 @07:04PM (#17467616)
As the article states, they lost their competency. Here in France, the reason is poor planning, focus on cost-cutting and lack of long term vision by top management and government. EDF, the historical state power company turned into a private company in 2004, laid off most of the technicians that built the power plants over the years and subcontracted all the maintenance work to hundreds of subcontractors that fight for the lowest bid and employ only underqualified people, who often work in illegal conditions. The latest EPR reactor in construction in France is riddled with defects, the pressure vessel, built by Framatome, also absorbed by EDF, has uneven carbon content which means it could crack. The concrete enclosure has many large holes due to poor work. The bridge on top of the reactor was made of low-quality steel bought in Russia and had to be replaced. Basically everything is badly done, because they constantly try too make it in the cheapest way possible. But it's not working out for them because fortunately the nuclear safety authority is there to force them to redo things correctly. In its current state, the nuclear industry is basically dead in France. As another example, they can't decomission the plants arriving in end of life, and EDF officially postponed it until 2100.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by cc439 on Thursday July 05, 2018 @10:34PM (#17468456)
>As the article states, they lost their competency.

I think people undereatimate how bleak the short term future (50-100 years) is looking right now. We've forgotten how to properly build many of the things we once touted as the pinnacles of modern civilization and the current societal status quo is too fractured and stressed to ever pursue the kind of learning process needed to reaquire that knowledge. This is but one example among many.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by greglindahl on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:53PM (#17468717)
We have plenty of competence in wind and solar energy. What we need to pay attention to is that many of the nuclear plants built in the past are flawed, and so we always had less competence at building them than we thought.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by candiodari on Friday July 06, 2018 @01:53AM (#17469217)
Not at all. We had plenty of competence. We just chose to save a buck instead of using it.

And the risk ? "You cannot blame me for that !"

(especially since this is taxpayer funds, ie. everyone, decided by democratic vote, at least in France and the US. The democratic contract ought to mean that since we collectively decided to do this, we are also collectively responsible for the results, and yes, even if you voted for the other guy)

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by greglindahl on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:16AM (#17469581)
You appear to be certain that you know a lot about whom to blame, but the reality is that it's unclear that we ever had the ability to build a large number of reliable nuclear power plants.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by opo on Friday July 06, 2018 @02:39PM (#17474048)
>…it's unclear that we ever had the ability to build a large number of reliable nuclear power plants.

Nuclear power plants have been safer and more reliable than other forms of power.

In terms of reliability, nuclear has had the highest capacity factor of any source of power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor

In terms of accidents, nuclear has had a much better safety record than any other form of power up this point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents

(They don’t cover ground based solar which I would think would actually be the safest. Why do people keep wanting to subsidize roof top solar?)

Some other links on deaths due to energy production: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-ener... https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldw... https://ourworldindata.org/what-is-the-safest-form-of-energy https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2012/06/10/energys-d...

Unfortunately anything at all related to nuclear is covered by the media orders of magnitude more than other power sources so people have an understandable perception that it is much more dangerous than other sources of power. What if the Alison Canyon was a nuclear storage site (instead of a natural gas storage site) and 11,000 people had to be evacuated - how much would the media have covered that? Another recent example would be the evacuation at the Oroville dam - almost 200,000 (YES 200 thousand!) people were forcibly evacuated since the worst case failure scenario would have have been a tidal wave of water 30 feet high rushing down stream. This made the news for maybe a day. I can't blame some for being afraid of nuclear power, but there are many who should know better.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by Reason077 on Saturday July 07, 2018 @03:44AM (#17477560)
”Why do people keep wanting to subsidize roof top solar?”

Ground-based solar has a cost in terms of the land being unavailable for other purposes, such as agriculture or housing or even just maintaining ecosystems in their natural state.

But roof-top solar is making use of a resource that is otherwise unproductive space anyway. There are also benefits to having energy production right at the point of use, since you avoid grid losses and are offsetting the retail cost of energy rather than selling into the grid at wholesale prices.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by opo on Sunday July 08, 2018 @01:10AM (#17482255)
>...Ground-based solar has a cost in terms of the land being unavailable for other purposes, such as agriculture or housing or even just maintaining ecosystems in their natural state.

True, but I was mostly comparing the safety record. The death rate for rooftop solar is probably at least an order of magnitude worse than ground based solar. Even with subsidies it is also much more expensive.

>...There are also benefits to having energy production right at the point of use, since you avoid grid losses and are offsetting the retail cost of energy rather than selling into the grid at wholesale prices.

Very little of rooftop solar is used on site - it is just added to the grid.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by Ygg2 on Friday July 06, 2018 @08:01AM (#17470688)
We know we are incapable, because deaths per GWh for nuclear power are lower than solar or wind. Oh wait. No. That's opposite.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by bobthepanda on Friday July 06, 2018 @04:39AM (#17469888)
When you elect representatives, you delegate a lot of authority to those representatives. No one picks who to vote solely on nuclear policy, and you could argue that if it you actually polled voters it probably wouldn't rank very high in terms of priorities, especially not nuclear at any cost.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by Bograff on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:56PM (#17468728)
I feel like this outlook discredits a lot of wonderful young people out there.
Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by Reason077 on Friday July 06, 2018 @03:06AM (#17469537)
And yet, the UK government awarded EDF the contract to build the new Hinkley Point C plant, to the same EPR design.

Decommissioning nuclear plants is hugely expensive and a problem all over the world. It’s one of the main reasons why nuclear is now so expensive.

One hope is that it may be cheaper in future with advances in robotics, etc, which can operate safely in contaminated environments.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by iforgotpassword on Saturday July 07, 2018 @06:15AM (#17477906)
This perfectly illustrates why I'm absolutely against nuclear energy. You know, all those pro nuclear advocates apparently assume that powerplants will be run by selfless companies that only care about safety and human well being and are content as soon as they can cover their expenses. I can't fathom how you can be this disconnected from reality.

Reality is that you cut costs, and keep cutting costs more and more as long as that thing doesn't blow up, and if you have problems or minor leakage that you would have to report but can cover up, you do so.

And we didn't even get started with nuclear waste. What could and should be done and what is currently being done is again miles apart in many instances.

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by wiz21c on Friday July 06, 2018 @06:52AM (#17470376)
>>> hundreds of subcontractors that fight for the lowest bid and employ only underqualified people

ahhhh the marvels of competition...

Re:A Double First in China for Advanced Nuclear Reactors by pacnard on Friday July 06, 2018 @07:02AM (#17470427)
But there is no competition. The company that is using subcontractors has a law-sustained monopoly and political connections. Of course they just need to look for the cheapest guys.