News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by kstenerud on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:20PM (#17465033)
> Racism and global climate change are not explained by our shared history with chimpanzees, nor are gender diversity, the #MeToo movement, and the recent rise in nationalism.

No. It can all be compared to how most social mammals operate.

Racism & nationalism have their roots in tribalism, a very useful tool to keep a tribe cohesive and thus competitive against other tribes.

Climate change: Have a look at any invasive species for examples.

Gender diversity & MeToo: Genders in mammals will take on certain specialized roles in order to survive in their environment.

Are they right and ethical? Of course not. Times have changed, and our psyches haven't kept up. But ignoring our evolutionary heritage only results in treating the symptoms rather than the cause. That's not how you correct problems.

> It’s only by delving into humanity’s distinctive evolutionary history, since our split with the other ape lineages, that we are better able to develop a fuller understanding of the human niche, of what makes us specifically human.

Uh, no. It's also important to find out what's baked into our psyche, no matter how ugly or inconvenient, and take steps to compensate for them or maybe even correct them. That's what higher reasoning is for.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by kazinator on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:25PM (#17465077)
I would say that racism is rooted not specifically tribalism but more broadly in inductive reasoning (particular-to-general heuristics) which has been absolutely indispensable to survival and evolution.

It is critical to classify a creature as friend or foe based on what class it belongs to, rather than granting the instance benefit of doubt.

How previously observed members of a group have behaved in the past constitutes rational evidence for estimating the future behavior of a newly observed member of that group.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by tkahnoski on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:50PM (#17465275)
Trying to understand the thread of reasoning here so correct me if I didn't interpret this correctly.

An individual observing some members of a group with different physical characteristic with a certain behavior, an individual infers all members of that group behave that way.

Then with an individual being exposed to a sampling of that groups behavior due to say the news or social media algorithms the individual makes an inference but is unable to account for the bias these sources might have.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by kazinator on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:11PM (#17465917)
> individual infers all members of that group behave that way.

E.g. "all sharks bite legs off"

This leads to survival: not having your legs bitten off.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:34PM (#17465636)
Even before social media - we're a social and talkative species. More often than not, we're not observing members of a group directly, but we're receiving an already made generalization from other people - which they as well may have received, not made. In the past, the main source of those received generalizations were people we met. Ever since the printing press, it's mass media instead.
Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by smhost on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:59PM (#17465344)
Higher reasoning isn't all that great. E.g., people have constructed consistent systems of reasoning that are entirely misanthropic or, if not actually misanthropic, they conclude that the extinction of the human species is good.

And you're missing the point that the stratification of phenomena into "higher reasoning" <-> "base instinct" is a false hierarchy. Even when you're working within ethics, you eventually have to ground yourself in moral intuitions, which is fundamentally irrational (the underlying mechanism of moral intuition can't be examined through reason).

I think maybe what the author is ultimately saying is that it's not wrong to think about these uniquely human qualities as being just as natural and basic as anything else.

[dead]
Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by handsomechad on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:44PM (#17465224)
This isn't fair, the OP broke down his arguments for why the author was wrong, and all you do is appeal to the author's authority as a "trained professional". After a certain amount of life experience you realize that "trained professionals" in some (many?) fields of study often have glaring gaps in their knowledge of are purposely ignorant of some set of facts/ideas that do not corroborate their philosophical leanings.

Either way I feel it would have been more productive to rebut the GP on the merits of his arguments. For the record, I agree with him, though I am also not a "trained professional", just an amateur who has spent a lot of time thinking about this subject.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by msbarnett on Thursday July 05, 2018 @02:02PM (#17465372)
> This isn't fair, the OP broke down his arguments for why the author was wrong

No they haven't. An argument is a persuasive set of evidence and reasoning presented to make a case for a conclusion -- OP merely made a bunch of handwavey, highly debatable statements as if they were fact

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by TooBrokeToBeg on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:48PM (#17465254)
> This isn't fair,

Of course it's fair, in a discussion.

> the OP broke down his arguments for why the author was wrong,

No he didn't. There are no "arguments" presented. There's a vague premise (It can all be compared to how most social mammals operate. <--- not an argument in any sense) then some 1 line ramblings that seem thinly related.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by kstenerud on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:45PM (#17465231)
Cannibals and Kings - Marvin Harris

Warriors and Worriers - Joyce Bennenson

Sex at Dawn - Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by froboz on Thursday July 05, 2018 @03:34PM (#17466118)
Well, Harris has been out-of-date for decades in anthropological circles, I'm afraid. He's a fun read, but I wouldn't take his books too seriously at this point. It's pretty well understood now that a strict economic materialist framework doesn't explain why people do what they do (humans are _not_ rational actors, by any stretch of the imagination), but he was never able to allow himself to think outside his Marxian box.

Granted, I've only had a cursory look at Bennenson, Ryan, and Jetha, but they're a couple of psychologists and a medical doctor, none of whom seem to have a deep background in cultural anthropology. Unsurprisingly, their works appear to fall back on the usual just-so stories taken from sociobiology and evolutionary psychology.

TL;DR: I respectfully disagree with the implication that these sources are strong counterarguments to the article's thesis.

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by kstenerud on Thursday July 05, 2018 @04:17PM (#17466440)
I've definitely noticed a tendency in modern times, especially among Americans, towards all-or-nothing-ism. Someone's work is either completely right, or completely worthless. All you have to do is poke a few holes, and then you can dismiss the whole thing as nonsense. Usually, it culminates in an insular attitude of "I don't need to see the evidence to know it's wrong."
Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by stcredzero on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:55PM (#17465317)
Classic HN. Layman comments to tell us why a trained professional knows less than them.

There has been tremendous politicization of science in media in recent years. Basically, if it contradicts a narrative the media is trying to push, actual science is shouted down and castigated. Both the left and the right do this. The right does it with climate science. The left does this with psychology and social sciences.

Basically, this article is nicely full of facts. However, it's presenting them in the classic leftist mode of obscurantism, all to push a politically driven agenda:

These contexts include the history and current reality of specific inequalities that stem from economic, racist, and sexist processes in our society.

As humans are social animals, there is some psychological insight to be gained from studying other social animals, just as there's some physiological insight to be gained by studying the biology of rats and monkeys. Right now, any biological and evolutionary components of human behavior contradict the Marxian, postmodern social constructionist, and far left foundational notion of the human being as blank slate. If any such components are acknowledged, many of their simplistic moralistic calls for reform would have to be questioned. The realistic scientific consensus is a moderate and nuanced one: both nature and nurture matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQHSKLXu2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmyO3hbOz8

Re:Most of what chimpanzees and humans do today is not direc... by lainga on Thursday July 05, 2018 @01:37PM (#17465167)
Classic HN: this is "pop sci, and not a scientific article" in one comment, and "written by a trained professional" in another.