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Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:29AM (#17405760)
The US has played nicer than most countries were they to enjoy its economic might and pre-eminence[1]. Few countries would allow their workforce to endure economic self-inflicted hardship while maintaining an economic advantage in negotiating trade. But the US has, over the years, put up with unfair trade from Japan, SKorea, China, Some of Europe in the name of "free trade". I don't begrudge allowing some disadvantage with regard some developing nations --but not developed nations. For fair trade to work, it has to be bi-lateral. If you unilaterally do fair trade but your partner doesn't, you may do your principle good, but you're selling out your worker for principle.

Since Reagan, maybe before, the blue collar worker of America has seen their government give in and cower in the face of unfair trade saying, "we'll make it up in services" or "your goods will be cheaper". But what good does cheap do you when you have no job and no money? They never saw their lot get better. People wonder why people are now "working poor".

When I was in middle and HS, my bus drivers and janitors (they were not "cleaning engineers" just yet), were able to raise a family with decency. No way that happens now.

As Michael Moore poignantly, albeit ironically, said, finally, someone stood up to the corporations and said, "no more". I'll stop the hemorrhaging. One AFL-CIO in PA, the other day, endorsed a Repub. As an atheist, I have to say, Good God, what happened to the Dems? They sold out the American worker in favor of the multinational, transnational capitalists. If they don't watch out, they will lose labor to Repubs.

[1]Just look at how China manages its advantage in Africa, LatAM, etc. Japan in SEAsia, Russia with Former SU repubs., etc.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:10AM (#17405912)
You, and most americans, seem to be fixed with deficit in goods, but at the same time do not even mention the massive trade surplus that the US has in services. By some measures, total deficit with the EU for example is fairly balanced.

I assume that you are in favour for a rebalancing in services trade too?

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:13AM (#17405919)
If we are trading in services unfairly, sure. But we're likely not. Others will put up many different barriers to impede fair trade. The US does less of that nonsense, on balance.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:20AM (#17405950)
What about unfair technological lead due to government support? The internet is a DARPA spinoff.

What about unfair IP rules due to overwhelming control of international organizations and standards?

What about unfair tax dodging by US multinationals, not paying tax on profits in the corresponding countries by abusing an international tax system made by the US for the US?

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gwicks56 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:28AM (#17405983)
More to the point, what about the "exorbitant privilege" the USA enjoys from having the worlds reserve currency? If other nations make a concerted effort to ditch this set up, the USA can no longer run massive deficits. Imagine the USA trying to run a balanced budget immediately.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:39AM (#17406009)
That's over-stated. I don; think the US cares too much about that at all. In fact it encouraged the Euro.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @02:43AM (#17406203)
That happened in the golden era of multilateralism, after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union. The US realized how unfair the situation was, and took some timid steps to start a rebalancing of the situation, allowing for the creation of a competing currency.

It is not that the Euro was not a threat to the dollar, it is simply that the threat was minor then, and that it was plain and simple the right thing to do: renounce to unfair advantages in order to move to a more just world.

The US continues to unfairly abuse the dollar as world currency, and dismissing this fact can be a costly misjudgment: fair for the world, but painful for the US.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:36AM (#17406000)
France had Minitel. They just never did anything with it. The EU also subsidize (even more) then the US does. US corps can't take profits from military ops to subsidize civilian ops. EU also tax dodge[1]. It's not an American thing. Also, The US double taxes its companies. The EU do not. Am Cos pay taxes on worldwide profits. EU cos do not.

[1]http://www.dw.com/en/german-companies-avoid-billions-in-taxe...

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by Bendingo on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @02:26AM (#17406147)
Yes of course, the US is better than everyone else.

Enforced trade, fair trade, it's all the same thing really.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Expedition

[2] https://www.economist.com/special-report/2003/07/10/japanese...

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @11:24AM (#17408893)
If you gotta go back two centuries ago to find something major, I think this proves my point. Regardless I was talking about the post war period, when modern international trade began its earnest desire to propagate free trade.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by brbrodude on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:00AM (#17405877)
that's what capitalists do, what did you expect? lol
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:04AM (#17405894)
Japan is capitalist, so is South Korea, Taiwan, etc. Still, they do protect their blue collar workers without selling them out to transnational capitalists.

I'm not an anti-capitalist, but I am for protecting your own workers in the face of international shenanigans.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by brbrodude on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:26AM (#17405970)
yeah they were protecting while USA corporations were expanding, too bad it doesn't trickle down that good. There was no disadvantage for the actual ruler, the profits. So.. Yeah, what was gonna happen happened.

Also, no maternity leave, no paternity leave, no social safety net, no unions, no paid vacations, etc, etc, etc. How did it happen? It's not really that of a mystery, they just had a very long strip-tease on the workers, removing protection piece-by-piece, for the 'job creators'! you may not be anti-capitalist, but capitalism is anti-you. Anyway, I'm an anti-capitalist so that's my point of view.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:45AM (#17406021)
Those countries are a different culture. Some of these things are seen as personal failings. There is also more reliance on family than govt or charity --the tradition for charity is limited.

To be frank, I like seeing the government doing something to protect against unfair trade practices. At the same time, I wish unions would go back to their roots and work to protect workers rather than their current raison d'etre which is to perpetuate itself.

When was the last time Unions demanded their reps push back on unfair trade?

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:44AM (#17405814)
Nicer yes, but not nice at all: fake wars, dollar bullying and rules ownership (global IP and trade laws are made by US for US) has given the US a tilted playing field. The US is still by far the richest country. If it has blue collar problems maybe it should rethink the way richness and costs are distributed.

Maybe the US led capitalism needs a rethink.

And blamimg the world for this ideology is quite astounding: the US has pushed for it for over 60 years.

And more: what do you have against 95% of the world"s blue collar workforce?

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:45AM (#17405819)
>And more: what do you have against 95% of the world"s blue collar workforce?

Nothing. But they are not mine. As they don't care about my blue collar sisters and brothers, nor do I care about theirs.

People think redundant blue collar workers should retrain, get new skills. That's nice. Usually the service jobs don't pay as well and it's naïve to think 50 and 60 yos have the bandwidth to retrain and achieve similar status in a new career.

EU and Japan enforce IP just as much as we do. They may be even be more stringent.

If Trump is successful in this, he has a decent chance at making it possible for blue collar whites and blacks to achieve the potential Bruce Springsteen saw in them.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:52AM (#17405850)
> But they are not mine

Well, trade war it is then. And it might not be so easy to win against 95% of the world. Specially seeing how unfairly the US has been acting internationally: trade disputes are minor issues compared to the military and monetary abuses done by the US.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @12:54AM (#17405859)
If you want unfair monetary abuses, talk to the IMF/World Bank[1] and China's "loans" around Asia and Africa. I think we have retreated from military affairs compared to the Bush and Obama years (to the chagrin of Dem and Repub neo-cons).

In trade, we've acted too fairly with the other developed nations.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/09/the-world-b...

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:00AM (#17405879)
No, I prefer to talk US bullying to anybody willing to swap the dollar for euros for example (Iranian Oil Bourse).

And it is quite rich to say "we have reduced military affairs": the EU is suffering a massive migration crisis caused by the lie-based military intervention in Irak over 15 years ago, while the US refuses to take any of those migrants.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by SubiculumCode on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @03:35PM (#17411103)
Maybe, but after two world wars, Europe should just grin and bear it.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:02AM (#17405885)
Most of those migrants are from North and Sub-Sharan Africa, You can thank Obama (and Bush). Most blame goes to the ill-conceived "Arab Spring" Obama and Hillary sprung.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:15AM (#17405927)
The general unstability of the region after the collapse of one of the few stable regimes (Irak) due to US intervention is one major reason why so many crisis sparked in the area.

Most migrants come from Siria. And little matters which american polititian is to blame for this crisis: the US is mainly responsible, and unfairly does not play any role in mitigating the consequences by taking refugees.

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:20AM (#17405951)
Iraq had its issues, sure, but the instability you see in Syria is unrelated to that but quite related to the "Arab Spring". Iraq was not exporting its instability. The Obama admin tried stirring thigs up and then Saudi and Iran of course had to rush in to fill up the vacuum and create more instability along with Russia (backing Iran) because each wanted to be hegemonic in the ME.
Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:36AM (#17405999)
Fine, let's say you have convinced me: it was crooked Hilary. Are you taking those refugees then?

Germany has taken close to 1 million, Turkey 3, Libanon has a 50% population increase. How is the US stepping up to the plate?

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by mc32 on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:38AM (#17406004)
I'll let you know when I see Saudi and Iran taking in their brethren.

Europe contributes to the drug trade in Mexico whose instability leads to illegal crossings into the US. Over the years we’ve taken more millions. We don’t ask the EU to “do its part.”

Re:China Begins to Question Whether It’s Ready for a Trade War by gonvaled on Wednesday June 27, 2018 @01:48AM (#17406030)
But you are seeing Turkey taking lots of refugees for something the US is mainly responsible.

Extremely unfair.