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Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by eksemplar on Sunday June 24, 2018 @02:41AM (#17385310)
Maybe it’s because I’m European, but 8 years ago I could buy coffee with crypto in both Copenhagen and Berlin and today I can’t.
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by SlowRobotAhead on Sunday June 24, 2018 @02:59AM (#17385366)
Because it’s not a currency anymore it’s a commodity.

That first time you had to explain to your mom or aunt what Bitcoin is becsuse they saw it on TV news or radio - that’s the time it became too risky for retailers to trust it.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by tluyben2 on Sunday June 24, 2018 @03:18AM (#17385408)
Did they ban it in Copenhagen and Berlin? In general? Or just not enough demand so they threw it out?
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by eksemplar on Sunday June 24, 2018 @03:49AM (#17385487)
It’s not illegal, it’s just really inconvenient.

Today we’ve linked instant payment methods to our credit cards, if the card isn’t rfid enabled on its own. So you just swipe your payment method and you’re done.

We even have a banking app that lets you instantly transfer funds between you, between banks as well, for free. Called mobile pay. So smaller stores that can’t afford to have a credit card system, use that.

So that’s on the payment side. It’s also extremely tedious, and expensive, to turn the bitcoin into actual cash + taxation makes selling a coffee with crypto a bad business case.

Honestly though, I think it’s mostly down to a complete lack of demand.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by sparkie on Sunday June 24, 2018 @04:50AM (#17385655)
I'm guessing it's more to do with transaction times than anything. A merchant needs to wait 10, 20 or 30 minutes to get a confirmation in Bitcoin, because he can't be sure there will not be a double-spend of the money until it is confirmed.

Technically, this has always been the case, but there was a false belief that 0conf transactions were secure, because Bitcoin clients rejected double-spend attempts by default (as a DoS protection). This prevention of double-spending unconfirmed transactions was never part of the protocol though, and it was made clear when Replace-by-fee was added, which shows how clients can easily replace existing transactions with new ones, without changing the Bitcoin protocol.

There's still a crowd who believe that 0conf transactions are fine, and RBF should be removed (eg, the Bitcoin Cash developers), but it's really just ignoring the reality that RBF is not an enforcible protocol rule, but a client-side policy in the software. It's probably fine to use 0conf for small transactions because it is manageable risk, similar to accepting credit cards where payments can be reversed.

Another possible solution to faster payments is with payment channels, where the risk of double-spending is mitigated by hashed time-locked contracts which are transmitted between parties and not broadcast over the Bitcoin network until one of the parties wants to reclaim their funds onto the Bitcoin network. Since the parties are just exchanging HTLCs over a TCP connection, they're practically instant, the fees are low or nil, and there is a potential privacy improvement by not revealing every transaction into the Bitcoin ledger. This is in development (minimally working on Lightning Network now), but proceeding quite slowly.

If Bitcoin is going to have widespread global usage, these problems need to be overcome so that it is as simple, or simpler to use than credit cards for the average user. It possibly is simpler to set up for merchants already, if they're technical enough, because they don't have to involve 3rd party payment processors.

The other side to it is that we take credit cards for granted in the developed world, and often miss that there are a billion or more people without banks in the developing world. These are the people who have the real use-case for Bitcoin. A single user can set up a Bitcoin node on a smartphone in some remote village, and suddenly bring banking capability to their entire village. I think that's a very strong use case. People are also using it to hedge against their national currencies which are being hyper-inflated by their own governments - as is happening in Venezuela right now.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by notahacker on Sunday June 24, 2018 @06:00AM (#17385846)
Setting up a Bitcoin node in a remote village doesn't "bring banking capability to the entire village". The node doesn't offer a badly-needed credit facility or the ability to turn remittances into local banknotes (at least not without an actual bank account...), the stuff that can be bought with Bitcoins can't be shipped to the village anyway, a foreign language software program that doesn't run on dumbphones certainly isn't an improvement on their existing cash, mobile and IOU payment systems and is an unimaginably awful way for a technically and financially unsophisticated population to store their life savings. It does offer hope to wealthy Westerners who bought Bitcoin in December that they might recover their losses by dumping on the global poor, I guess.
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by umanwizard on Sunday June 24, 2018 @01:01PM (#17387222)
What does bitcoin have to do with banking? Banking would have to be built on top of Bitcoin, as it was already for gold in the past.
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by tluyben2 on Sunday June 24, 2018 @05:57AM (#17385837)
I was more referring to crypto in general ; some are very fast and low fees, but yes I see what you mean. Are you in Berlin or Copenhagen?
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by phobosdeimos on Sunday June 24, 2018 @07:14AM (#17386049)
This, retailers don't even want to support Apple Pay because of its transaction fees. If there is already a almost free and efficient payment system that everyone is happy with and is used by 99% of the population why bother with anything new that IS NOT SUPERIOR TO WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE?

I simply don't know what problem BTC was supposed to solve.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by MBCook on Sunday June 24, 2018 @09:49AM (#17386548)
What Apple Pay transaction fees? They’re exactly the same standard credit card transaction fees because they ARE standard credit card transaction fees. Apple doesn’t take a cut.
Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by phobosdeimos on Sunday June 24, 2018 @11:23AM (#17386860)
"they ARE standard credit card transaction fees"

Creditcards are robbery, they are not very populair and cost retailers money. Why does everyone want to make money from transactions? We are talking about a basic service that costs less than a cent.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by acdha on Sunday June 24, 2018 @02:36PM (#17387717)
Cash also costs retailers money: counting and delivering it, dealing with fraud, etc. – it’s just a cost of doing business and businesses balance those all the time. Right now most places I go are pushing credit cards / NFC because it’s faster and doesn’t suffer from counterfeiting.

The reason Bitcoin hasn’t seen much usage is that it’s worse on every one of those metrics. There just isn’t a non-ideological market for a slow, expensive system with no fraud protection.

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by isostatic on Sunday June 24, 2018 @02:23PM (#17387673)
> they are not very populair and cost retailers money

Citation needed.

Well on the popular claim. Yes they cost retailers money, so do debit cards, so does cash.

In the UK debit cards are the most popular means to do a retail transaction - in terms of numbers of transactions (it's been plastic in terms of value for years). Credit card transactions from 9% in 2013 to 11.5% in 2016. Debit card from 32% to 43%. Cash decreased from 52% to 42%. 'Plastic' has never been more popular.

Average cost of taking sash has remained fairly stable, but the cost of taking debit and credit cards has plummeted in recent years, in line with their increased popularity.

In 2016, credit cards cost 0.5%, Debit 0.25%, Cash 0.15%.

Non card costs (including things like paypal) is at 1.7%.

Figures from https://brc.org.uk/media/179489/payment-survey-2016_final.pd...

Re:Bitcoin is a Cult by mikeash on Sunday June 24, 2018 @11:57AM (#17386989)
Not very popular? They seem extremely popular to me.