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Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by bluedino on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:31PM (#17378033)
From Fight Club: Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by matt4077 on Saturday June 23, 2018 @10:49AM (#17381495)
The cynicism required for that quote to work as intended doesn't really carry over to stuck keys...

I also like to point out that the quote may have ended up supporting the behavior it criticises instead of limiting it. By spreading the idea that such behavior is actually common, it may have legitimized it.

I have no evidence to support this, but I refuse to believe such behavior, especially in the explicit form alleged by Fight Club, is anything but rare. "Corporations are people" (my friend) also implies that people make all those decisions, and individual morality does play a role.

I do have personally witnessed several instances where employees have insisted on moral behavior even when it was detrimental to the bottom line.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by yalph on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:06AM (#17381587)
Corporation are people does not imply anything about actions they take in these instances. Also just because you have a couple of examples about moral behaviour does not make it a norm.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by smallnamespace on Saturday June 23, 2018 @01:41AM (#17379728)
The problem isn't doing the math, it's only doing the math based on the company's incentives.

If it were instead: multiply by the average cost to society, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one., then this is probably the best you can do (if you're a utilitarian)

On the other hand, society does have a responsibility to make sure the incentives on the company reflect what is actually important.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by pjmlp on Saturday June 23, 2018 @02:00AM (#17379771)
We do, that is when we decide to buy stuff from someone else.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by rbanffy on Saturday June 23, 2018 @07:50AM (#17380827)
And all my Magsafe bricks around the house won't help Apple selling me a new MacBook in the future.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by swozey on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:52AM (#17381795)
Just went through this and donglegate. The one saving grace is I can now charge my Android phone from my laptop charger and the cable is removable and USB. Now I just need to get rid of my other 40 microUSB devices. Course now I'm worried about voltage regulation and plugging in something and zapping it but I'm assuming USB-C has safeguards in place. As in plugging my headphones into my laptop charger brick via USB-C, etc.

I think we might finally hit a point in time where everything starts to be USB powered and not proprietary cables plugging into bricks (ha yeah right).

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by mcintyre1994 on Saturday June 23, 2018 @12:50PM (#17382079)
Can't plug an iPhone into it though.. and unless they've switched it up since I bought mine you get a USB-A to lightning cable, so you can't plug it into the laptop either without a dongle. :)
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by rbanffy on Sunday June 24, 2018 @09:33AM (#17386488)
Eventually the wireless charger of the next iPhone (the one without any external connection) and watch will be USB powered.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by swozey on Saturday June 23, 2018 @04:19PM (#17383230)
Forgot about that. Hilarious. It charges FAST.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by golergka on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:14AM (#17381622)
We do exactly that when the judges decide on the monetary amount of fines. So, in the end, I don't see a problem with these calculations from a utilitarian perspective.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by beojan on Saturday June 23, 2018 @05:40AM (#17380394)
The average out of court settlement should reflect the cost to society.

Unfortunately, if the corporation has better lawyers, it often doesn't.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by philjohn on Saturday June 23, 2018 @07:12AM (#17380666)
What is the cost to society of a letter sticking on a keyboard, or repeating?
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by drawnwren on Saturday June 23, 2018 @07:16AM (#17380681)
If that renders the laptop unusable, the cost to repair out of warranty is $700. That's a pretty good starting point.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by nathan_long on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @08:47AM (#17400106)
A couple years ago I was working as an independent contractor and my Macbook started having problems. I ended up needing help from local Apple repair folks. It cost me maybe two days of billable hours.

I wouldn't expect Apple to reimburse me for lost work; that's a risk I take when I buy and depend on a computer. But that risk certainly makes me take risks like "your keyboard may stop working and take a week to ship off and repair" into considering when buying something. I wouldn't buy one of these models with notoriously fragile keyboards.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by spunker540 on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:46AM (#17381768)
One could also buy a usb keyboard for $10. I know it’s less ideal but it’s not like the computer is worthless if the keyboard is busted.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by zepolen on Saturday June 23, 2018 @04:33PM (#17383297)
What is the point of a low weight laptop if you're going to be lugging an external keyboard around.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by nathan_long on Tuesday June 26, 2018 @08:51AM (#17400127)
Sure. But one could also buy a less expensive laptop than a Macbook and get a reliable keyboard. "It still sorta works" is not what I'd want to hear from the company that calls its devices "magical" and sells them at a premium.
[dead]
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by rsynnott on Saturday June 23, 2018 @10:15AM (#17381355)
People not being able to work due to faulty work equipment has a non-zero cost to the economy.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by rzwitserloot on Saturday June 23, 2018 @08:29AM (#17380953)
So Joe Q. Random dying or getting maimed in an avoidable car crash is a 'cost to society' but your laptop not working is not?

"Cost to society" is a term where I suspect various people will assign various different meanings to it.

Either we all explain what that term is supposed to mean, or, we use a different term.

In this case, I'm pretty sure the comment which started with the cost to society (speaking about the idea that an out-of-court settlement should reflect 'the cost to society') clearly meant: Take the # of laptops failing and becoming unusable due to the problems with the butterfly keyboard design, minus all people who get them fixed within 1 year warranty, and multiply it by $700, which is what owners of these laptops have to pay apple to get it fixed out of warranty.

The point that was presumably being made is that the out of court settlement should be similar enough to the internal (to apple) cost of apple's repair program, or possibly even this $700*affected number. The idea being, if it isn't, apple will simply settle out of court because it's cheaper for them to do this.

There's really no need to bring some sort of comparison between random car drivers and users of 'hippie' laptops into it, that seems unduly presumptuous of you.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by ShroudedNight on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:26AM (#17381690)
> Some yuppie whose keyboard doesn’t work right doesn’t represent society at all.

Are they not a member of society?

I must admit that I find it easy to pigeonhole people into these straw-man categories too, but making the leap from "I really don't get it" to "These people have no intrinsic value, thus we can completely disregard their well-being" is a giant step towards collective madness.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by ziotom78 on Saturday June 23, 2018 @08:34AM (#17380970)
But society is made of people! And calling a customer "yuppie" doesn't sound respectful...
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by golergka on Saturday June 23, 2018 @11:15AM (#17381635)
> Some yuppie whose keyboard doesn’t work right doesn’t represent society at all.

Even if you don't like someone (to the point of using uncalled derogatory terms), they're still a part of the society.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by Yetanfou on Saturday June 23, 2018 @09:08AM (#17381099)
Said yuppie would have spent that $700 on a brand-new hand-made saddle ('with ecological naturally cured Yak leather from the Himalayas') for his fixie bike which would have provided the proverbial drop which made the Yak-saddle-startup succeed in its venture, starting a business which would have lasted for many generations and which would have created a market for Yak leather which would have improved the lot of Yak farmers in the Himalayas who would have realised the way they're treated by their overlords from China was not up to snuff, starting a popular revolution which would eventually gain support from the Chinese population who would pressure their own overlords for more democracy, ending up with the democratisation of both China as well as its former vassal states.

But no, this will not come to pass because of Apple's cruddy keyboards.

That cost of society is what was meant.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by mark212 on Saturday June 23, 2018 @08:02PM (#17384154)
Just use Yakster -- Yak Saddle as a Service. They come to your house and swap it out for a fresh one every two weeks. Highly recommended.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by Yetanfou on Sunday June 24, 2018 @08:11AM (#17386234)
I personally prefer Yacky, the Yak-saddle-cleaner-service which tracks the microflora on your saddle and keeps it in check using locally sourced nettle water, this being much better for the environment. As far as I know Yakster just swaps saddles between bikes anyway so it is a bit of a sham, really.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by make3 on Friday June 22, 2018 @07:26PM (#17378382)
I'm sure the idea is correct, but I find it weird that it kind of implies that every single person who's unit is defective will sue; I'm sure it's not 5%
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by jklein11 on Friday June 22, 2018 @08:07PM (#17378576)
In the case of fight club they were talking about automobile recalls. As the defects likely would result in fatalities I would imagine a large portion of those effected would sue. This is especially the case if auto or life insurance policies are effected.

In the case of Apple Keyboards, I doubt the rate is as high.

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by DonaldPShimoda on Friday June 22, 2018 @07:37PM (#17378440)
Uhh well the "average out-of-court settlement, C" can just account for that. But it's also just a quote from a movie, so, like... it probably doesn't matter that much haha.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by windows_tips on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:40PM (#17379409)
Except I've heard near copies of the exact line inside major corporations.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by hoistbypetard on Saturday June 23, 2018 @02:07AM (#17379796)
It's famous for more than just the movie.[1]

[1](https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leg...)

Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by walterbell on Saturday June 23, 2018 @02:36AM (#17379875)
Coming soon to a self-driving robot near you.
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by abrichr on Saturday June 23, 2018 @12:24AM (#17379533)
By whom and in what context?
Re:Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro by killjoywashere on Saturday June 23, 2018 @01:02AM (#17379631)
Every actuary ever.