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Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by faitswulff on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:25PM (#17370574)
I don't know, I'm pretty sure this leads to putting kids in bubbles - and for full disclosure, I'm a proponent of right to roam laws. How do you balance letting kids learn to manage risk in unstructured environments with banning objects and activities that might be dangerous?
Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by jerf on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:47PM (#17370662)
Children need to be able to hurt themselves. That may bother some people to hear, but I'd suggest googling "congenital analgesia" for them. Children need to not be able to kill themselves via hazards their genetic heritage provides them no way to realize is dangerous. That is, children quickly learn not to fall too far [1], but they've got no inherent defense against eating two magnets slightly spaced apart in time. Or antifreeze. Or electricity. Etc.

There's still a lot of judgement involved, and I'm right there with you on children being overprotected in general. But they need to be kept from the unrecoverable mistakes.

One of the interesting things about child proofing your home, if you are of an introspective mindset, is the cataloging of how much danger you causally live with. Or at least, danger from a certain point of view.

[1]: Not 100% perfectly, of course. But there's a qualitative difference between our natural instinct's ability to deal with fall damage, and eating rare earth magnets.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by romwell on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:52PM (#17370683)
>But they need to be kept from the unrecoverable mistakes.

Unless those mistakes involve trampolines[1], because wheeee! Those are cool.

What I'm saying is that there are a lot of dangerous things, but we don't necessarily ban all of them.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-terrifying-statistics-tramp...

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by jerf on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:56PM (#17370700)
Well, I wasn't explaining the logic of the law, but the logic I use. I'm consistent; we have rejected requests for a trampoline, and the usage my kids have had has been heavily supervised.

One thing about trampolines is that AIUI, the vast majority of the danger comes from having multiple people on one at a time. Most of the remaining risk is manageable, more in the normal range of risk, especially with supervision. As evidence, I cite that in lawsuit-crazy USA, there are businesses like Sky Zone that provide trampoline play commercially. That kinda bounds the upper level of risk...

I have some additional considerations that require that for other reasons, but I think I'd still feel the same way even without them.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by romwell on Thursday June 21, 2018 @10:02PM (#17370726)
>Well, I wasn't explaining the logic of the law, but the logic I use.

Great! The whole point is that you are capable to do that, and that the total ban is unreasonable. Nobody is arguing that having small magnets around little kids who don't know better is a good idea.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by slavik81 on Friday June 22, 2018 @01:02AM (#17371469)
> there are businesses like Sky Zone that provide trampoline play commercially. That kinda bounds the upper level of risk...

In the past few weeks I've seen a couple articles about people breaking their spine doing flips into foam pits. I would avoid that particular activity, at least.

I had a trampoline as a kid. It resulted in a few very painful injuries, but it was a lot of fun. My brother broke his arm rolling off of it (nobody was even jumping). You can't fall off the edge at those businesses because the trampolines are built into raised floor areas. That removes one of the larger dangers from the equation.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by perl4ever on Thursday June 21, 2018 @10:02PM (#17370724)
"Children need to be able to hurt themselves."

I think you're kind of appealing to nature in a fallacious way. Hundreds of years ago, these magnets wouldn't exist. So, yes, there's always ways for bad things to happen, but even if that's "natural" and therefore necessary, that's not a reason to retain a particular hazard that has existed for a short period of time historically.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by faitswulff on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:53PM (#17370689)
> But they need to be kept from the unrecoverable mistakes.

That's a good point. I hope they keep these magnets out of kids' hands. The article ends on a promising note in that regard:

> We remain willing to work with the CPSC to develop the magnet safety standards for which we’ve already petitioned, and which will be more effective and reasonable than the all-ages, nationwide ban we succeeded in vacating in the Tenth Circuit. As we’ve already been doing, Zen Magnets looks forward to providing not just the highest quality magnet spheres on the market, but also the safest in terms of sales methods and warnings. Now that the war on magnets is over, hopefully we can all focus towards the war on magnet misuse.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by thomasfedb on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:37PM (#17370626)
This is a really different issue from right to roam. Magnet ingestion is something that will happen when curious little hands get hold of these magnets, and is also not something you can obviously know has happened. That's scary given the great potential for severe adverse health consequences.
Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by faitswulff on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:48PM (#17370668)
I don't think it is terribly different. Getting struck by a vehicle is at least as great a danger, if not a much more likely scenario, than ingesting magnets, and is also not immediately apparent for the simple fact that the kids are out of sight. I would put "right to roam" laws as being in opposition to the banning of object like magnets or Kinder Eggs.

That said, I do understand they can cause great harm. But what do we lose when we choose to isolate our kids from reality?

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by thomasfedb on Monday June 25, 2018 @12:29AM (#17389889)
A child being struck by a vehicle is almost always immediately obvious to the driver of that vehicle if nobody else.

That said, I wouldn't ban magnets myself, though I'm against selling then directly to young children.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by rhizome on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:27PM (#17370584)
How do you balance letting kids learn to manage risk in unstructured environments with banning objects and activities that might be dangerous?

People have been doing it for generations, so consider it something you'll want to think about for yourself before having children.

Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by faitswulff on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:32PM (#17370611)
I think you misread my intent in asking that question.
Re:Zen Magnets: 6 Years of Battle End in Victory by rhizome on Thursday June 21, 2018 @09:57PM (#17370704)
I read your intent and I don't agree with a libertarian implication that ignores how things have worked more or less fine, and which is certainly not banning everything.