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Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by dnomad on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:44PM (#17295785)
The dockless approach doesn't work. People rightfully hate the race-to-the-bottom that leads to bikes/scooters being dumped everywhere. Once you accept the dockless approach doesn't work there's three interesting possibilities:

1) The city picks a winner. This could be done fairly by auctioning off a five year contract or it could be done via corruption. Either way the scooter companies should be taking the millions they've raised and greasing officials.

2) Establish a market for docks. There's an interesting opportunity here in that scooter "stations" don't need to be the sort of big official stations that have beeen deployed for bikes where each station holds 30+ bikes. You could imagine a lot of small business, stores, etc. offering to host small stations that hold 4-5 scooters on their own private property. The scooter companies would then either race to lease as many of these stations as possible or would be forced to pay each time a scooter of theirs gets docked at the station. The winner is the company that owns the most stations. That's a real moat and the stations become real assets.

3) The simplest solution is probably to just to give people scooters. Let people "lease" a scooter and trade in these "leased" scooters at any time 24/7. Trade ins need not be a big centralized, complicated thing; you could imagine something like a scooter delivery service. In <20 minutes an Uber shows up and drops off a new scooter and collects an old one. Don't charge people if the scooter is stolen or breaks but do charge people if their scooter is left on the sidewalk and gets seized by the city. Then it would be up to individuals to make sure their scooter doesn't get left on public property. Scooters are so small -- and only getting smaller and more portable -- that you could imagine that most people won't mind stashing them under their desk/in their office.

All three of these possibilities btw lead to a single winner. At the end of the day, like with most transportation plays, you're looking at powerful economies of scale where the big guys only get bigger. It's a market to invest in if you think you can pick the winner cuz that winner probably will take all.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by woolvalley on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @05:59PM (#17298465)
I don't think the docked approach works well either, because the heavyweight docks are never close enough to where you want them to be.

It's really just a parking problem. We don't want another cable company / taxis v2 and 'pick' a winner with horrible service. You mandate that these things need to be locked to something and most of the problem resolves itself.

Businesses that want it to be easier to shop where they are will install bike racks. The city will fund new bike racks with scooter permits. You could even allow scooter companies to install and pay for new bike racks themselves as they probably understand demand dynamics far better than random cities. If the scooter companies install the racks, you just have to say they can be used by everyone and are owned by the city.

We don't need heavy duty docking systems that are exclusionary to one docking company. A simple cheap metal bike rack that everyone can use will be plenty enough and more economically efficient.

You can also detect if the renter rider puts the scooter in the right area or if someone is screwing with the scooters after the fact with accelerometers. You could even detect if they are in a tipped over state or not.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by DrScump on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @04:31AM (#17301308)

  You can also detect if... someone is screwing with the scooters after the fact with accelerometers
How does that help you? You can't do anything about it.
Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by woolvalley on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @03:21PM (#17306159)
It's how you attribute parking tickets. If you can tell the renter did the action, then you can pass the ticket to them, which incentives them to keep it upright. It also lets you put them back up with workers:

https://www.limebike.com/blog/new-tech-helping-lime-keep-bik...

Also by locking the devices the likelihood of them falling or being in the way is low.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by DrScump on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @05:25PM (#17307095)

  If you can tell the renter did the action
But you can't, without onboard video, anyway. Anybody wanting to steal or vandalize a scooter won't do so on one for which they are (or just were) an active renter.

  by locking the devices the likelihood of them falling or being in the way is low
I don't get that at all. All locking does is prevents unpaid usage as a scooter; it doesn't prevent theft, vandalism, or bad acts with it (e.g. piling a bunch of them in the CEO's driveway as a protest).
Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by woolvalley on Thursday June 14, 2018 @07:21PM (#17316239)
But why as a renter would you want to only vandalize / steal the scooter that you just used, vs just stealing / vandalizing the hundreds of other scooters out there? It lets the companies collect statistics on who is more likely the doing the bad behavior, careless customers or random assholes?

The biggest complaint with these scooters is they are in the middle of the right of the public right of way and laying down on the street in an inefficient manner.

If they are locked to something, they would be outside of the right of way since lock points tend to be on the edges of sidewalks. If you put the lock on the correct point on the scooter, it will be fairly difficult to knock them over, vs the light tap you need today.

Locking also reduces the instances of impulsive bad acts, since now you need some sort of specialized power machinery to remove the items. And barriers to impulsiveness is a big factor in reducing crime. Did you know for example crime tends to happen more at the bottom of a hill vs the top of a hill? Because people don't want to walk up hills because it's extra effort.

On top of that, nobody has been complaining about personal bike ownership, which today follows a model of being locked to things.

JUMP bikes in SF for example follows this model, has been around before the scooter boom. I haven't heard a single complaint about them other than positive complaints such as 'why aren't there more?', and 'why are they restricted to an area?' The scooters on the other hand have had a bunch of negative complaints.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by dnomad on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @02:01PM (#17295996)
The entire dockless business model started in China and they're way ahead with the backlash. Shanghai has cracked down hard [1] but it's still a huge problem with bikes being dumped all over the place [2].

If people can move past the dockless approach and realize it doesn't scale then we might get more efficient business models that could be defended without gobs of VC money.

[1] http://www.wri.org/blog/2018/01/chinese-cities-aim-rein-bike...

[2] https://news.sky.com/story/in-china-rental-bikes-have-become...

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by Camillo on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @10:57PM (#17299893)
But scooters are _much_ smaller than bikes, and Americans are _much_ less likely to ride scooters or bikes than the Chinese are. I haven't seen anything close to those Chinese scenes in San Francisco while they had scooters. In fact, I haven't really seen anything that looked like much of a problem, in terms of parking.

Anyway, cities could make parking rules and require the scooter companies to help with enforcement. E.g., to lock the scooter you have to park it properly and take a picture with the app. The city's parking enforcement gets access to the pictures and can fine people without even having to get off their chairs.

The real problem with scooters, from what I've heard, is that boomers hate them because they're new and because some people ride them on the sidewalks. But the dock solution does not help at all with that.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @02:09PM (#17296099)
>Either way the scooter companies should be taking the millions they've raised and greasing officials.

Refreshingly honest.

Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by shanghaiaway on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @08:58PM (#17299410)
4) It creates a larger market for scooters. Nobody wants to deal with docks.
Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by lozenge on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @04:39AM (#17301349)
It's worth noting that docks can be virtual now - as simple as a few painted lines and a rugged Bluetooth device without a screen, that shakes hands with hardware installed in the scooter.
Re:Scooter startup Bird is seeking a $2B valuation by Karrot_Kream on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @04:27PM (#17297662)
> Establish a market for docks.

Fascinating idea, thanks for that analysis.