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Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by rectang on Monday June 11, 2018 @08:09PM (#17289704)
Moving on is crucial. However, what I find troubling about that formulation that it appears to deny the victim's experience. Can't we pause, acknowledge the negative, and then move on?
Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by DoreenMichele on Monday June 11, 2018 @09:47PM (#17290129)
The issue is that if you get hit by a car, the entire world doesn't spend the rest of your life pitying you and hanging their car-related baggage on you and refusing to acknowledge they are doing so. If you get raped, every bit of sexual baggage of everyone you know will be dumped in your lap in the name of "sympathy" while people actively refuse to allow you to move on.

I'm a let me brag and show off by showing you my scars kind of personality (a la Lethal Weapon* ). Men can do that and impress people. I routinely get pity.

I have been on HN nearly 9 years. No one ever goes "Damn, girl, you are one helluva badass that you can discuss a topic like this calmly in such a large forum that is overwhelmingly male." No, in this very thread, more than 4 decades after the abuse ended, someone has told me they are sorry my therapy was a bad experience, though I in no way indicated it was.

How much evidence do I need to provide that I am remarkably comfortable with myself, my past and my sexuality before the world stops heaping pity upon me as an endless emotional burden I cannot escape? The answer appears to be that a rape victim is not allowed to move on. They are not allowed to stop being an object of pity.

I find that monstrous and incredibly counterproductive.

That in no way denies that I was traumatized. It merely asserts that a still ongoing issue is the negative way other people choose to view me in defiance of all evidence to the contrary.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNOsA4nH8yE

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by rectang on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:38PM (#17290294)
> one helluva badass

Well it's cheap to say now, but I have thought that. :) Not necessarily about this topic though.

I have a friend, who has lived well, but who long ago was raped by her father... and then when she spoke out in her church community, was accused of lying and shunned as everyone rallied around her father, "a good man".

It seems to me there's a middle ground, which is never struck precisely but often close enough, between the extremes of gaslighting and victim-mongering. And exactly where that middle ground lies changes over time.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by mirimir on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:18PM (#17290223)
Hey, you are "one helluva badass" :)

> Each of us is the sum of our scars.

Caine, in Stover's Blade of Tyshalle.

Also, the horse witch in his Act of Atonement books.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by DoreenMichele on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:24PM (#17290246)
I'm totally tweeting this.
Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by mirimir on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:44PM (#17290321)
Stover did write the Star Wars prequels, but I don't hold it against him (too much). Abercrombie, Morgan and Scalzi all like his stuff. Caine is pretty much straight Crowley.
Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by dragonwriter on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:00PM (#17290166)
> I'm a let me brag and show off by showing you my scars kind of personality (a la Lethal Weapon* ). Men can do that and impress people. I routinely get pity.

No, not about being a victim of a sex crime, they can't; at least as much as women can't, maybe even moreso.

> The answer appears to be that a rape victim is not allowed to move on.

A “brag and show off by showing you my scars” person is one who has not moved on from the sources of those scars. Yeah, that kind of failure to move on may get a different typical response by both gender and source of the scar, but you can't both have a need to show the scar and complain that other people aren't letting you move on: you aren't letting yourself move on.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by DoreenMichele on Monday June 11, 2018 @10:02PM (#17290177)
Choosing to be an example of recovery is not evidence I have not recovered.

I'm well aware men who were raped or molested are treated even worse.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by dragonwriter on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @03:36AM (#17291393)
> Choosing to be an example of recovery is not evidence I have not recovered.

There's a huge difference, as I see it, between choosing to be an example of recovery and being,asyou previously described, a “brag and show off your scars person”, particularly in terms of the audience to which accounts of particular trauma are directed.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by DoreenMichele on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @04:17AM (#17291583)
You know, I actually have a lot of respect for you. You really have your moments when you shine.

This is not one of them. This is right up there with that brief period when you were repeatedly accusing me of being transphobic.

So I have zero plans to argue this further with you.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by erikpukinskis on Monday June 11, 2018 @09:27PM (#17290060)
I think the key is to pay attention to where the victim is in their process and honor that.

That may mean not acknowledging the suffering, or it may mean not acknowledging that things will be ok.

Re:Habits of Highly Miserable People by rectang on Monday June 11, 2018 @09:41PM (#17290112)
I like the true listening in your approach. Responding that way reinforces agency.

I think that's also compatible with having an expectation that the situation will change over time, that most often the intensity of suffering will decrease, and that the survivor will get their life back on track.