News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Alternatives to Google Products by Godel_unicode on Monday June 11, 2018 @12:13AM (#17281720)
While I generally agree with you about the soundness of the FOSS==privacy argument, I think you're misstating it subtly. The claim isn't necessarily that the privacy sensitive user specifically will be able to audit the source but rather that someone somewhere will have done, and will have written about problems they uncovered. See also many eyes making all bugs shallow.
Re:Alternatives to Google Products by mattkevan on Monday June 11, 2018 @12:35AM (#17281825)
Not always. Heartbleed was present in OpenSSL for two years before anyone noticed.

Many eyes make all bugs shallow, but if there aren’t enough eyes with the skills or the time then problems will remain deep, even for important software like this.

Perhaps everyone thought everyone else had done the work?

Re:Alternatives to Google Products by ajross on Monday June 11, 2018 @01:12AM (#17281982)
Heartbleed was a very subtle security bug, the discussion here is about privacy violations. You think that detecting if, I dunno, mutt is secretly uploading your contact list is going to escape detection for years?
Re:Alternatives to Google Products by dmitriid on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:45AM (#17282515)
It will. IIRC HomeBrew’s integration of Goigle Analytics went unnoticed for almost a year, and only then they included an opt-out option (it’s still opt-in by default)
Re:Alternatives to Google Products by brownbat on Monday June 11, 2018 @05:35AM (#17282967)
Heartbleed was found though.

Thinking out loud here, what's the best counterfactual on HB?

I can imagine a ClosedSSL that gets hammered in a blackhat presentation. I can imagine ClosedSSL getting fixed, eventually.

It's just hard for me to imagine that happening faster because people like Neel couldn't read the code.

Maybe the counterfactual is that ClosedSSL is also well funded and cares deeply about security, so it finds HB internally.

But openness doesn't preclude funding. And closed source doesn't grant you an automatic security focus.

So rich ClosedSSL vs poor OpenSSL isn't an apples to apples comparison.

All things held equal, openness provides one extra possible avenue to find and catch bugs, and so such projects will tend to have more caught on average.

What does HB teach us then? Just that some bugs are hard.

Now, to be fair, if "openness" is just used as a substitute for internal security audits, a way to shrug and farm out that work and blame to passers-by, then that would be obviously terrible.

That probably happens more than we'd like to admit, but I still don't think it's the typical reason people open their code.

Re:Alternatives to Google Products by staticassertion on Monday June 11, 2018 @12:47AM (#17281885)
OpenSSL can just as easily act as a point towards FOSS for privacy given that it was a vuln that was discovered externally (multiple times by distinct parties).
Re:Alternatives to Google Products by amelius on Monday June 11, 2018 @05:33AM (#17282951)
Closed source code, even if it has no hidden purpose, may be hackable as well. Nothing is perfect. I think you are making an unfair comparison.