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Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by mmjaa on Sunday June 10, 2018 @03:50AM (#17277083)
If we didn't have heavily entrenched imperialist tendencies that allowed us to destroy so-called "inferior cultures" at will, we'd probably have learned a lot more from our fellow man than we have.

The Australian aborigines knew about anti-septics and anti-biotic preparations hundreds of years before we, in the West, claimed the victory for ourselves. They even had a Hippocratic oath hundreds of years before Western physicians, who were still practicing blood-letting as a norm. Colonists arrived, and those injured who stayed in their camps for treatment by the blood-letters, died. Those who consulted the locals, learned bush medicines, were healed and survived.

If only some rational souls had been there to observe, we could've had antibiotics a hundred years sooner. One wonders what sort of world it would've been if we'd paid more attention to the aborigines, rather than massacre them.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by partycoder on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:25AM (#17277148)
Strictly speaking, the Sumerians had a higher degree of technological advance than the Inca. They reached that level of sophistication in great part due to the availability of high yield crops and valuable agricultural animals (horse, goat, sheep) of the fertile crescent.

Europe benefited significantly from fertile crescent innovations: irrigation, writing, metallurgy, the wheel, animal-powered transport, horseback riding, etc.

By the time of the conquest of the Americas they also benefited from additional foreign innovations: steel metallurgy, gunpowder, the precursor to the sextant, the compass, mapmaking...

However, in the end what inflicted the most damage were the diseases and plagues that emerged by bad sanitary practices like living in proximity to animals: smallpox, cholera, typhus, etc. Those plagues practically emptied the American continent and the Caribbean. Meanwhile the only American disease passed to Europeans was possibly syphilis.

Andean cultures did not develop such level of technological advance in great part because their lifestyle and survival did not require it. Potato, quinoa and corn agriculture, combined with llama and guinea pig farming effectively supported their large populations to the extent they had no famines. Then, Andean geography is not a good use case for wheeled transport.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by agumonkey on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:38AM (#17277177)
Even chemotherapy came after a group of researchers decided to try random plants. Western greatness is quite often mitm hiding very simple stuff. Some say that we made it large scale .. but still
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by tboerstad on Sunday June 10, 2018 @05:07AM (#17277268)
I thought chemotherapy was discovered as a side effect of chemical warfare during World War II?

My source is “The Emperor of all Maladies”

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by afarrell on Sunday June 10, 2018 @01:19PM (#17279056)
> chemical warfare during World War II

Aside from Italy's campaign of Ethiopia and Germany's campaign against a variety of civilian groups, I'm not familiar with chemical warfare being used in WWII. Was it discovered as a result of one of these?

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by wtallis on Sunday June 10, 2018 @02:07PM (#17279344)
Wikipedia has decent coverage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cancer_chemotherapy

Use of mustard gas in WW1 led to post-war research into its effects. By 1942 the US was conducting human trials of nitrogen mustard for treating lymphoma. Separately, a German air raid on US ships occupying a port in Italy during WW2 resulted in the release of mustard gas that was aboard one of the US ships. Autopsies and tissue samples from that incident also pointed to the potential medical uses.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by agumonkey on Sunday June 10, 2018 @06:58AM (#17277558)
Sorry, i didn't mean the principle, the yew tree extract used for paclitaxel
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by Pxtl on Sunday June 10, 2018 @09:52AM (#17278108)
Wait, chemotherapy drugs were originally extracted from yews? Like, the little conifers with cup-shaped berries?
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by agumonkey on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:09AM (#17278174)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paclitaxel

History section explains NCI screening in the 60s

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by marcosdumay on Sunday June 10, 2018 @01:45PM (#17279204)
Around here on the American continent I don't think the choice was available. Native cultures were destroyed much before most of the colonizers got here, because the continent was experience a downcycle, and because of diseases that came with the first Europeans.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by eveningcoffee on Sunday June 10, 2018 @06:19AM (#17277455)
I have many times wondered if the world would be a better place if we could unify our world to use a common language.

What horrifies me would be the horrendous loss of cultures that we will loose access to.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by Viliam1234 on Sunday June 10, 2018 @06:55PM (#17280620)
I like the idea of everyone using Esperanto as their second language. But there is a problem with incentives. Even the argument of political neutrality has its problems: someone has to be the first to seriously support the language, but at that moment the language would stop being perceived as neutral. (For example, if tomorrow EU would decide to use Esperanto as a neutral common language, and if the plan would actually work well, then people outside EU would see it as the language of EU, not as a neutral one.)

Also, sometimes people don't want to cooperate, but rather to out-compete their neighbors. Learning English or Chinese is more difficult than learning an artificial language -- but if you have already paid the costs of learning them, you have an advantage over your neighbors who got worse education. Making international communication too simple would take away the relative advantage of those who have already invested in the current one.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by tnzn on Sunday June 10, 2018 @07:21AM (#17277601)
I doubt the world would be a better place. Different languages often go hand in hand with different cultures, trying to unify everything may not be a good idea to make the world better.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by mmjaa on Sunday June 10, 2018 @07:34AM (#17277637)
I believe the answer is that we must teach our children to be multi-lingual, at all costs, and eschew any and all cultures which, on the basis of the value they place on their own language, render other cultures words 'inferior'.

The spirit of the desire to render a world language is a good one. There are many ways this can be accomplished; at a personal level, it is made through the decision to honour every word, every symbol, every sign on Earth, with equality.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by artificial on Sunday June 10, 2018 @01:10PM (#17279010)
Guess French is out :/
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by fallingfrog on Sunday June 10, 2018 @08:14AM (#17277762)
You'd better start learning Chinese then!
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by adventured on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:29AM (#17278267)
There are more English speakers globally than there are Mandarin speakers. The number of people that can comprehend some reasonable amount of English is even higher. The Mandarin number is going to contract as China's population declines, the English speaking population will continue to expand perpetually. By comparison, half of the EU can speak English, and that figure is climbing. Less than 1% of the EU can speak Mandarin. The same premise holds for Africa and Latin America. In Latin America, Mandarin is such a rarely known language it's difficult to even measure its use against Spanish, Portuguese and English.

Few people in the rest of the world are attempting to learn Mandarin, because it's a very difficult language to learn and it has a limited cultural projection. The use case to learn Mandarin is primarily restricted to a subset of a subset of business. More people speak English in Asia outside of China, than speak Mandarin.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by mitchty on Sunday June 10, 2018 @11:09AM (#17278439)
I'd highly encourage you to listen to this lexicon valley podcast, I am a bit skeptical on mandarin or cantonese or one of the other dialects of chinese taking over globally.

http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2018/0...

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by fallingfrog on Monday June 11, 2018 @08:55AM (#17283778)
I was more trying to make the op think about the fact that their language might not be the universal one, and to think about how it might feel to be forced to learn some other culture's language, than to make a statement about mandarin Chinese specifically. It just seemed like a tone deaf statement to casually suggest that perhaps everyone else in the world could be forced to abandon their mother tongue.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by Cretin2 on Sunday June 10, 2018 @09:39AM (#17278053)
Which 'Chinese'?
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by paidleaf on Sunday June 10, 2018 @11:09AM (#17278442)
There is no such thing as a "chinese" language. Your statement is akin to saying "You'd better start learning european then".

China is a region with a far greater linguistic diversity than europe.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by laretluval on Sunday June 10, 2018 @01:14PM (#17279033)
Plain "Chinese" commonly refers to Mandarin in English usage.

The CCP is trying to wipe out the other dialects as soon as possible, anyway.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by paidleaf on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @09:04AM (#17292801)
> Plain "Chinese" commonly refers to Mandarin in English usage.

What we call "chinese language" has historically been cantonese as that's what we are mostly familiar with ( mostly via immigration ).

Most of us don't even know there are different chinese languages. I know I didn't until someone corrected me on social media.

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by DoofusOfDeath on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:36AM (#17278300)
Reminds me of a quip from Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw: "The United States and Great Britain are two countries separated by a common language."
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by Y_Y on Sunday June 10, 2018 @07:45AM (#17277660)
Visiting Australia from Europe is very expensive, especially in the Age of Exploration. Who would bother to do it just to "observe"? Almost tautologically the only people who will do such a thing are those with the morality to try to extract vast wealth. Those who wouldn't let themselves do that stay at home doing something else.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by mmjaa on Sunday June 10, 2018 @08:01AM (#17277703)
Well, perhaps there is a chance for us to learn from history, still, and quit assuming that there is One Way™ for human civilisation to proceed/progress.

Those who have the technical skill to go to Mars, are probably among the first examples of colonists/empire-builders who won't be trampling on the natives; a truly revolutionary moment for the human species in that regard. At least, one can hope ..

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by adrianN on Sunday June 10, 2018 @09:40AM (#17278056)
If there are any Martian natives we'll probably trample on them quite literally.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by swayvil on Sunday June 10, 2018 @11:38AM (#17278595)
Consider the epistemology blob.

A bunch of axioms. A bunch of backstories justifying the axioms. A system for deriving good ideas (from axioms, observed phenomena and other ideas). A mountain of ideas derived from the axioms and observed phenomena, ideas derived from those ideas, and so on.

We call these epistemology blobs things like "scientific culture", "western culture", "Christian culture", "Inca culture" and so on.

Epistemology blobs appear to be invariably mutually antagonistic. They can't suffer each other to exist. They compete and self-preserve with a nigh biological zeal.

It's weird.

Charles Fort discusses it a bit in his "Book of the Damned".

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by shams93 on Sunday June 10, 2018 @01:46PM (#17279212)
The other fact most people don't know is that the first agriculture appeared not in the middle east or even Africa but in New Guinea. People we write off as "savages" invented the cultivation of plants for food.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by spraak on Sunday June 10, 2018 @10:04AM (#17278155)
Thanks for sharing that! To me it also speaks to that it seems the general perception is that we as society especially in the West are always moving up, and that it's perceived to be impossible that earlier times had technology or awareness greater than what existed after that, or now. I think it could help to explain a lot of unresolved or not well understood artifacts from ancient civilizations.
Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by cgb223 on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:08AM (#17277109)
Do you have a source on that?

I’d love to read more about it

Re:Inca civilization was better at skull surgery than Civil ... by mmjaa on Sunday June 10, 2018 @04:50AM (#17277221)
From the Journal of Anthropological Society of South Australia:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:e4nc6Ke...

There are a few other studies out there on this issue .. quite revealing.

EDIT: a nice quote which highlights the issue:

Colonist and author Dame Mary Gilmore stated in her reminiscences of growing up in rural New South Wales that:

… the white forgets the uncounted ways in which he [was] … unintelligent (and still would be unintelligent) but for what the blacks taught. As parallels to the treatment of snake-bite by sucking, take the use of eucalyptus, the application of weak wattle tan-water for burns and blisters, of clean mud as poultices, of native gums in dysentery, the eucalyptus beds and steam pits for colds and rheumatism, and ask was it a black or a white intelligence that was first to find and apply these(Gilmore 1935: 232).

She stated that a whole industry in making medicines owed its existence to Aboriginal practices:

It is true there is a eucalyptus extract industry now; but the knowledge that led to that was originally derived from the natives, who used eucalyptus leaves in steaming, and for wounds. For rheumatism steam pits were made, heated by fires, raked out, lined with leaves and then possum-rugs laid over the top. Another use of the leaves was as a strapping for wounds that needed closing in order to heal. These uses came to the pioneers from the blacks (Gilmore 1935: 226).