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Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by DoctorOetker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @10:11AM (#17255855)
But how do you buy the anonymous gift/prepaid whatever card?

Cash bills are marked with unique codes, and the trip from bank->(consumer->seller)*->bank tends to be relatively short, often 1 or 2. Systematic/sustained transfers are easily detected with graph theory & statistics... Especially if most other actors are carrying their cell phone with them all the time!

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by TimTheTinker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:15AM (#17256507)
In this case, a little obscurity goes a long way. A $5/month droplet is more than enough for a single household’s internet use. If you make cash purchases with any frequency, it’s very possible to make your once-every-10-months $50 Visa gift card purchase nearly untraceable (at least by dragnet/mass methods). Your cover is far more likely to be blown by other things, like which IP address connects to the droplet most frequently.
Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by DoctorOetker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:45AM (#17256854)
Hi, I live in europe, and am not familiar with visa gift cards in specific. Would you mind describing exactly how they work, what form you buy them in, and how you use or enable them?

I.e. is the code printed at the time of buying? Or does it have a scratch-off code and packaged in plastic wrap? Is it scanned under a device while selling?

Even if there dont seem to be any unique codes, an IR fluorescent barcode could be used on the card, or its plastic wrap.

Even if there are no unique codes, the cards might come from a rack or pack in sequence, and the cashier instructed to scan a new pack of cards when opening a new pack!

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by TimTheTinker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:55PM (#17259620)
It's just a prepaid credit card. Looks and behaves like any normal credit card, except that it has no name or address associated with it (and will validate against any).

Yes, they have unique numbers, and the time/date/location of purchase is known for each card's number. Like I said, this is not secure enough to defend against targeted attacks by well-resourced actors, but good enough to stay out of the dragnet, at least for now.

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by Proof on Thursday June 07, 2018 @05:39PM (#17260529)
Question: wouldn't it just be more feasible for American govt to request to have all the numbers to be handed to them prior to the sale? That way they would know, where it was bought and be able to track down by whom.

Sorry for my English. I hope my question is understandable.

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by TimTheTinker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:26PM (#17260890)
They could do that, but I’ve never heard of it. And compelling companies to do it long-term would be illegal (AFAIK, IANAL).
Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by panarky on Thursday June 07, 2018 @10:21AM (#17255940)
When you pay cash for a drink from the convenience store do they log the serial numbers of the banknotes they give you as change?

Even if they did, how would they associate those serial numbers to your identity?

When you buy a prepaid card does the cashier link the serial numbers to the transaction?

If other actors have their cell phones with them, how does that allow graph theory to tie the prepaid card to you?

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by DoctorOetker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:22AM (#17256580)
Alice withdraws bill number 17 from the ATM.

Bank knows: Alice-17.

Alice buys cell phone charger from cashier/seller Bob with bill 17.

Seller Bob deposits his cash (including bill 17) to the bank, and only the bank needs to scan the unique number, and associate with who brought it in:

Bank predicts: bill 17: Bank->Alice->Bob->Bank

For a lot of people even this simple automatable case is controversial, or supposedly too expensive to be true...

average joes and janes do not need to track and note down serial numbers for this to work...

====

Most convenience stores have a unified interface for printing the unlock codes for each type of product, and print the unlock code at time of buying. If you carry a cell phone, then the space-time event of cell phone position at the same location as the convenience store at the same time as printing the code identifies you. If other actors have their cell phones with them, the path of their bills is very much revealed. One is then trying to hide in among a very small set of unexplained connections...

Really we should have some kind of open source simulator of a market, and the surveillance state perspective of it, so we can prove in practice what is possible to deduce...

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by tgragnato on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:37AM (#17256771)
> Really we should have some kind of open source simulator of a market, and the surveillance state perspective of it, so we can prove in practice what is possible to deduce...

A variation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_forest might get the job done (the risk is an overfitted model).

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by udkyo on Friday June 08, 2018 @09:43AM (#17265234)
The problem with tracking cash that way is it only works if the shop closes right after Alice leaves.

If another customer comes in and gets Alice's note in their change (which is fairly likely since it's sitting at the top of the stack) then that note becomes entirely disassociated from the original purchase.

Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by dsfyu404ed on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:02PM (#17257767)
Insert 'Alice walks to cashier and asks "can I get this in 10s and 5s?"' between withdrawing the money and spending the money and it throws a wrench into things.
Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by blacksmith_tb on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:55PM (#17258379)
Or uses that tracked 20 to buy a 1-dollar item from a vending machine that dispenses change in dollar coins, buys a transit ticket, and many other ways to get large amounts of change in a single transaction. Until cash becomes illegal?
Re:IPVanish “No-Logging” VPN Led Homeland Security to Comcas... by DoctorOetker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:54PM (#17262457)
That's a small wrench:

Random citizen Randy who does not try to anonimize carries a 10$ bill will hence call Randy's bill Random citizen Rachel who also doesn't try to anonimize carries a 5$ bill.

Both carry phones gossiping location history to surveillance state. If any of those bills are brought to a bank by some seller, neither Randy nor Rachel will have visited the sellers store recently, so the spooks know it switched hands.

Find any consumption place (bar/shop/...) which both Randy and Rachel have visited "shortly" after each other (location history), since they were last known to carry the bill.

They apparently both went to the same bar.

1) You better not carry your cellphone when anonimizing your 20$ dollar bill in the bar.

2) You better (in the bar) not be within the "light cones" of 2 events: going absent from your phone (forward speed cone), rejoining your phone (reverse speed cone). So locomote very fast!

1) and 2) frustrate each other, better just don't own a phone.

Your phone can detect from noise, motion (accelerometer/gyro),etc if its owner has left it behind or returns, and you will be one of only few people in a large radius who is not carrying his phone like a good boy.

They are not directly interested in tracking Randy and Rachel, they track them to track those who anonymize. They are not directly interested in tracking you probably, they track you to track the hard targets. When most substantial (i.e. bills) money flows are fully explained, only a sparse amount of bill transmissions, and a sparse amount of suspicious behaviours need to be matched.

EDIT: 1) When you anonimize a large bill by splitting it, and you get multiple bills back, you must destroy the lower amount bills. (EDIT 2: CORRECTION better keep it and leave it on a train, different trains for each superfluous bill)

2) Lets pretend the introduction of smartphones was the start of surveillance state, say 15 years ago. Individually we have potentially 15 man-years of experience with surveillance, on the other hand a 250 million population nation state has 15*250 million man-years of experience with surveillance!

3) Given a sequence of hypothetical events, it is easy for me to attack a known strategy, but how can the state collect anonymizing strategies? "Easy" : for each flawless execution of anonymization, there will be hundreds of flawed executions: a person not realizing he shouldnt carry a smartphone but correctly splitting his bill after ATM: if enough cases like this are found, you can try find other patterns in their common behaviour, for example after using the anonymized $10 bill on whatever, doesnt see harm in using the extra $5 bill (in conjunction with say his phone, or in conjunction with a fresh $20 bill from ATM)

From all the known (but failed) attempts, we can try and look for alternative ways we could have anonymized them. Some will turn out to be aware of other side-channels and will have found original remedies for one problem, introducing a second sidechannel, which can be taken into account in the future