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Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by cptskippy on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:52PM (#17234081)
> And if you really think about it, I cannot see how you can justify the model3 being worth 60k$ !

I agree with everything you said but that statement. What in your opinion constitutes a 60k car?

I am always amazed by luxury cars whenever I ride in them, not by how nice they are, but by how they're just tacky "luxurious" material cladding slapped on a cheaper car. Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, Acura, and Chrysler cars are just Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, and Dodge cars covered in tacky leather and lick&stick wood paneling costing 30k more.

Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by stephengillie on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:23PM (#17234216)
For comparison, I was considering a Model 3 last summer. I had an old small truck that had broken down and was renting an Altima. I couldn't wait for the Model 3 reservation, so I got a certified pre-owned Camry Hybrid. It included a 7 year warranty and 8 year battery warranty, and I added an additional maintenance warranty. I had chosen an XLE, with all of the features I wanted and many more.

I drove the car home that day, and paid $3000 less than the theoretical base Model 3 would cost. The car gets 30-45 MPG consistently, so uses about twice the energy of a Model 3, and is limited to more expensive but more ubiquitous gasoline for fuel. But this is also okay as I'm in an apartment and have no charger at work.

I think some forget that the competition for the Model 3 is wider than just EVs. Lower fuel and maintenance costs are only worth so much.

Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by cptskippy on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:32PM (#17239341)
Conversely I don't need a new car and I'm unsure if we'll actually buy a Model 3 when our reservation comes up. Chances are that we won't because new cars, not just Tesla's, are ridiculously expensive and you get much better value for your dollar with used cars. However I still have my reservation because I believe in what Tesla is/has done and I strongly want them to succeed because I feel that if they fail it will give auto manufacturers an excuse to stop producing EVs. I feel so strongly that we need to get off the ICE and into EVs that I just might buy a new Model 3 solely to support an ideal even if it will put an excess burden on myself.
Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by fjsolwmv on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:57AM (#17238893)
How much does gas and maintenance cost you? Also, Model 3s will be available used eventually too. Obviously if you want a used car you can't get a newly invented model.
Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by stephengillie on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @01:53PM (#17240252)
I paid for an extra maintenance package, so I believe I'll only have to pay for tires and paint for the next several years. The 14 gallon tank gives more than 500 miles of range, so I fill up about twice a month - about $1000-$1200 a year.

I'm very interested in adding batteries to my Camry Hybrid in the long run, to increase its battery range, and hopefully add plug-in functionality. The biggest question is where to put the batteries. In the 2018 model, they added one underneath the rear seat.

Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by symlinkk on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:14PM (#17234176)
You’re forgetting about performance. Cadillac and Lexus are usually rear wheel drive or all wheel drive and quite a bit faster than their non-luxury counterparts. And all of them have more technology than the non-luxury brands.
Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by cptskippy on Monday June 04, 2018 @10:13PM (#17234435)
The power train and drive train can be different as you pointed out, and sometimes they're not. One of the upgrades for the Model 3 is to the power train and drive train as well.

As for technology, eh... maybe.

Safety features like airbags, backup cameras, ESC and anti-lock brakes are now mandatory on most smaller cars. Lane departure, dynamic cruise, blind spot detection, and huds are becoming standard features on most mid sized cars. Newer features like Super Cruise are optional just like Auto Pilot in the Model 3.

I don't think the entertainment or nav packages in any car are worth it. I would actually consider paying extra for them to remove it and instead put a shelf for my phone with a USB port.

Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by fjsolwmv on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:54AM (#17238863)
Lexus quality is nothing like a Toyota. Sure, it's the same core architecture, but the refinement is a league above. Driving a Lexus feels like gliding in a spaceship, and the interior comforts are more comfortable. I assume the other luxury cars are similar.

I wouldn't buy one, but I've driven one.

Re:Tesla Faces Accelerating Rate of Model 3 Refunds by cptskippy on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:32PM (#17243421)
You would be surprised how much of that driving feel can be tuned in software or with relatively inexpensive suspension components.

The interior comforts are variable but I am always surprised by what passes as luxury in some makes. The BMW and Lexus cars I have driven are definitely on the nicer side but still not that impressive.

I can recall ever saying "wow this is impressive", the best has been "everyone should be doing this" but mostly it's just disappointment.