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Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by oldgun on Monday June 04, 2018 @01:24AM (#17224893)
> Big tech firms have been known to intimidate startups into agreeing to a sale, saying that they will launch a competing service and put the startup out of business unless they agree to a deal...

> Big tech firms are able to shell out huge sums to keep top performers and even average employees in their fold and make it uneconomical for their workers to consider joining startups.

Reminds me so much of the show Silicon Valley. A great satire!

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by softwaredoug on Monday June 04, 2018 @07:54AM (#17226893)
I’m not always convinced Google, Amazon, etc can start a product and compete in a new market and have it work 100% of the time. These companies have plenty of their own flops. Many things come to mind: google plus, amazons smart phones, MSs acquisition Skype...

Certainly they have scale advantages, but there’s also diseconomies of scale that can work against them.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by malloci on Monday June 04, 2018 @11:08AM (#17228453)
They don’t have to be successful when the mere threat of their entry into a market can be enough to kill off (or suppress) potential competition.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by intended on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:21AM (#17227042)
I think the issue here is not the advantages or disadvantages of their scale.

Rather the chilling effect - the firms themselves (may be) slow to perceive the next iteration of consumer needs.

Startups on the other hand figure them out - and build a product.

The big fish/spiders, with their larger webs, sense the new upstarts and THEN build those features - and then go back to whatever it was that they were doing. The cycle then repeats.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by digi_owl on Monday June 04, 2018 @02:46PM (#17230827)
As can be readily observed with the MS v Netscape battle over web tech (while called a browser war, my impression is that the browser was a proxy for getting a foothold in the server market).

Never mind that MS had pulled something similar vs Novell some years prior, by bundling a client with Windows and then marketing their Exchange server as a drop in replacement for Novell's Netware. Just set up a NT box in the server room, configure the PCs, and phase out Netware.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by onetimemanytime on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:42AM (#17227156)
>>and have it work 100% of the time. These companies have plenty of their own flops. Many things come to mind: google plus, amazons smart phones, MSs acquisition Skype...

when it's your startup it's 100%. But they don't need to score perfectly always. They can raise your costs by 100 fold if they want, and if they fail, so what, they try another thing. Time and time again and still have tens of billions in bank. The startup has 4-5 months of salaries, if lucky.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by notyourwork on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:00AM (#17227270)
The world doesn't need to be convinced, only the startup needs to be convinced of the possibility. It is intimidation not technical vetting of a prototype.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by rwj on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:47AM (#17227745)
A lot of their power could come simply from raising risk. Cut the chances of success in half, and that nice investment opportunity no longer a good bet.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by dvtrn on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:12AM (#17227003)
I almost quipped that vacation rental marketplaces may be the exception but then I remembered Expedia acquired a bunch of them, including a former employer so there went that.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by EGreg on Monday June 04, 2018 @10:29AM (#17228057)
Yeah I often joke I want to decline at least $6 Billion. (Following Facebook declining Yahoo’s $1.5B buyout offer and later Groupon declining $4B. Yeah our company’s that old.)

Anyway I met the lawyer of the Free Software Foundation, Eben Moglen, with one question: how can I prevent the tech giants from cloning my open source software, while the indie shops can? He said AGPL. That’s the poison pill you need for those big guys.

“You just watch, we are gonna copy your open source software, roll it out it to our 1 billion users and release all the source code to everyone so they can build on top of it.. oh wait.”

Yes! Do that! It will help everyone

You see... an economic system of collaboration instead of competition eliminates a lot of these issues. The best architecture and code rises to the top instead of being killed off, and the profit motive isn't what drives progress.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by sidhu1f on Monday June 04, 2018 @10:43AM (#17228185)
Wouldn't GPL v3 be as effective as AGPL in this context?
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by sangnoir on Monday June 04, 2018 @11:55AM (#17229140)
GPL v3 isn't a poison pill for *aaS where the software is not distributed but runs in a data center - unlike AGPL.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by iteabagkevin2 on Monday June 04, 2018 @03:02AM (#17225264)
Don’t those points sound great for startups and workers?

1) We will give you a large sum of money for your startup. 2) we will pay our workers so much they won’t want to do a startup.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by pjc50 on Monday June 04, 2018 @04:51AM (#17225785)
The sale in (1) is often on very unfavourable terms, because the valuation of a startup depends on whether the quasi-monopolist is trying to kill it or not. How much would your startup be worth if it was banned from the App Store, for example?

2) is fine .. unless there are secret no-poach agreements in place.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by abdullahkhalids on Monday June 04, 2018 @04:20AM (#17225613)
They do. The unstated statement by the GP is that what's good for an individual is not always good for society at large. Competition is good for society; monopoly is usually only good for the monopoly and those few who can threaten the monopoly but are happy to roll over for money.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by Consultant32452 on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:05AM (#17226239)
I have a hard time figuring out what to be angry about. One day we're upset at the evil capitalists for paying workers too little. Now I guess we're upset at the evil capitalists for paying people too much.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by orcdork on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:16AM (#17226301)
What about "evil capitalists" using their advantage unfairly to stifle & crush competition, keeping their profits high, while keeping salaries artificially deflated for the majority of workers.

But ok, let's just create this fantastical narrative that "paying workers too little" and "paying people too much" cannot possibly apply at the same time to different segments of the population.

Hell, let's even use the loaded phrase "evil capitalists", a great term if what we're looking for is to deftly avoid any real criticism of capitalism.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by Consultant32452 on Monday June 04, 2018 @04:26PM (#17232031)
What's silly is running around like Goldilocks complaining that this porridge is too hot or that porridge is too cold. Well, it's not your porridge. You're not making it, nor are you eating it. So what business is it of yours?
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by SmellyGeekBoy on Monday June 04, 2018 @07:32AM (#17226771)
Yet us tech workers are some of the highest paid people in the world, and technological progress is advancing at a rate never before seen in human history.

I guess the current system isn't so bad.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by eeZah7Ux on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:36AM (#17227114)
> Yet us tech workers are some of the highest paid people in the world

...and inequality is skyrocketing.

> technological progress is advancing at a rate never before seen in human history.

Compared to the growth between 1900 and 1950, we should have teleportation now.

I'm not making a joke: life-changing progress keeps slowing down. E.g. refrigerators, washing machines, cars, airplanes, x-rays VS internet and smartphones.

> I guess the current system isn't so bad.

Compared to what? That's a false dichotomy fallacy.

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by abdullahkhalids on Monday June 04, 2018 @07:55AM (#17226904)
> technological progress is advancing at a rate never before seen in human history.

I think over the last 20-30 years, the useful and helpful-to-society technological progress as a fraction of the technological industry is fairly low. Most of Silicon valley is figuring out how to extract as much ad value from consumers as possible; except for the single percentage renewable energy fraction, most of the advancements in the energy industry is a net negative for humans; medicine is stagnant because of the increase in complexity and economics; and the list goes on...

Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by kilbuz on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:59AM (#17227266)
This is nowhere near the fastest technology has progressed in history.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by nine_k on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:39PM (#17234293)
Yes, you need an all-out mobilization of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War to move even faster. Not in the consumer segment, though.
Re:American tech giants are making life tough for startups by s73v3r_ on Monday June 04, 2018 @12:46PM (#17229682)
It's almost like there are different sets of people out there, who have different experiences with things.