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Re:The Overprotected American Child by taeric on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:13PM (#17215659)
Can you? Or do you just have good selection bias? Or do you just like not liking people?

Reality is most people rely on others for help. And there isn't a damned thing wrong with that. Indeed, the implication of the problem there is that it is not right to help and guide others. How is that ok?

Would it be great if we were all more self sufficient? I think so, but I don't have anything to back that belief. Especially knowing we are social creatures. And, all evidence is we have succeeded in large because we are social creatures. Even the giants among us relied heavily on social influence.

Re:The Overprotected American Child by HarryHirsch on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:57PM (#17215830)
Reality is most people rely on others for help.

Reality nowadays when a piece of lab equipment breaks down is that the kids call tech support, i.e. The Professor. You wish they'd consult documentation or their own brain, more experienced students in the lab, the tech support number on the business card that's stuck to the instrument &c p.p., but instead they immediately kick the matter upstairs instead of consulting peers or using the means at their disposal. Their childlike trust in authorities is too great.

Re:The Overprotected American Child by lovich on Saturday June 02, 2018 @04:38PM (#17216244)
I'd think that's more a cause of the blame that's put on people for going outside of their given rules. I'm sure if the student attempted to fix that machine and even if they didn't break it more, they'd be in a world of shit. You can't simultaneously expect people to be self sufficient and then punish them heavily if they try to be and anything goes wrong.
Re:The Overprotected American Child by HarryHirsch on Saturday June 02, 2018 @05:15PM (#17216427)
In the physical sciences you are simply expected to troubleshoot and perform basic maintenance on lab equipment. No, I wouldn't know where the helplessness amongst today's undergraduates comes from. Is it an unquestioning adherence to "the rules" that was beaten into them in school, or is it a desire to deflect potential liability? No idea!
Re:The Overprotected American Child by lovich on Saturday June 02, 2018 @06:06PM (#17216661)
Even when I was in high school about 15 years ago, we were always punished for violating any procedures or rules. Zero tolerance policies weren't just for violent actions but for everything. Our society does not tolerate children who disobey authority and that doesn't magically switch off when we kick them off to college
Re:The Overprotected American Child by 5DFractalTetris on Saturday June 02, 2018 @06:05PM (#17216655)
Pre-undergraduate education is nothing like the University level. Some of the students have never been in a laboratory, some of them didn't have user-serviceable cars or bicycles or computers, even those who "have coded" might not really "be programming," and authority figures who could fix everything almost magically basically were their lives for 18 years. That's before you examine eccentricities and differences in upbringing. And, before addressing the "not not totalitarian" practice of 'Zero Tolerance' and its sizable human cost. As the other user said, that adds up. I wouldn't be surprised if kids doing gun violence in schools are reacting to a false image of society which they're getting from people for whom tardiness results in detention.

I still can't weld like some of my friends. They're so brilliant, it'd take me years to catch up.

Anyway: if you really want to sell students on becoming the complete Scientific Humanist Who Delicately Breaks Rules AND Can Fix Anything, which you seem to fancy, start off the laboratories with "LSD Synthesis: from Ergot to Your Homemade Blotter Art" and then break the thermal cycler before the next lab, with the phosphorescence plasmids.

And, yes, in the U.S. and elsewhere, I would expect some (perhaps milder than I imagine) difficulties with that; and, no, I don't really condone drug use but I think you can see where I'm coming from with this reasoning.