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Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by bitL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @12:32PM (#17197678)
What lead are you talking about? Canon's sensors were a running joke in the past 5 years comparing to Nikon (that used modified Sony sensors), manufactured in 3 generation-older process than their competition. Seeing e.g. D750 vs 5D MkIII in low-light was an eye opener. The only selling point of Canon remained their unique "pleasant" color mapping (and photographers getting stuck with older Canon-only lenses/strobes etc.).
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by gnarcoregrizz on Thursday May 31, 2018 @12:57PM (#17197927)
Canon's sensors are decent, not a running joke as you say. But yeah they are known more for their colors (which is actually very important). Sony has destroyed the competition with their sensors though, and has really pushed the boundaries, at least until recently with that 50 mpix sensor that Canon released. Haven't researched that much though, I'm a few years behind myself.

That said, Canon has historically been the winner with their lens selection, and IMO UX. Sony is quickly catching up, or even surpassing them though with e-mount, especially now that more 3rd party lens manufacturers are killing it (Sigma). I also like EVFs more than OVFs since you get a better exposure preview and focus peeking for manual focus. I really, really, really wanted to buy a Sony a7, but I ended up buying a Canon 6d due to lens selection a few years ago (and the Canon beat them on price). I'm a huge fan of mirrorless tech and I'm actually surprised that SLRs are still around.

The camera body is being commoditized. I'm a canon fan and hope they catch up with a full frame mirrorless, my buddy who follows the tech more said he's heard rumors that they are releasing one next year?

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by ISL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @01:42PM (#17198392)
There are plenty of Canon and Nikon rumors regarding a mirrorless option; the proof will be in the pudding. The A7 III is Sony's shot at Canon's full-frame jugular.

I, too, surprised myself by recently purchasing a 6D (I, not II -- why increase weight and dark noise?) on both lens-selection/lock-in and quickness concerns. I was surprised to find that I loved being able to leave the camera switched on all day in the mountains and draw/shoot/stow in seconds, with 1000+ images on one battery. Barring substantial advancements in sensor/display power consumption, no mirrorless camera can match that property. Furthermore, it is an instrument I can handle/adjust quickly and reliably with gloves on in harsh conditions. For a week at temperatures between -20 and -30 C, the 6D (and iPhones kept warm) operated normally while friends with mirrorless cameras suffered shutdowns.

The three things, from my perspective, that Canon really lacks are 0.5-1 stops of dynamic range in the sensor (SNRs are competitive across all brands, an underappreciated fact), silent electronic shutter, and Sony's incredible array of on-plane focus sensors and focus algorithms (Canon's DPAF may actually compete, if turned loose/optimized further). Sony's eye-detection AF must be a game-changer for portrait photographers.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by gnarcoregrizz on Thursday May 31, 2018 @02:03PM (#17198553)
Eye-detection AF is huge. It's so difficult to get the perfect portrait. I think most people end up using preview mode and manual focusing, which is a pain and takes a while.

I'm not at all unhappy with my choice to get the 6d. It's a great camera, and Canon's lenses have all been great. Even though I've always wanted a smaller full frame, any size improvement to the body is negated by the glass unless you get a fixed pancake lens. Good point about mirrorless battery life as well, I don't usually consider it that much since its easy to carry a spare, but I had an eos-m a while back and the battery life was frustrating. Unfortunately, it got trashed in reviews which I think set mirrorless back a bit for canon. Sure the autofocus was garbage, but the 22mm f/2 kit lens for it was amazing (one of the best I've used) and it was the smallest inexpensive camera with the best IQ/$ imo, and it had an aps-c sensor. The rest of the competition was doing m4/3. I remember you could pick up the kit for around $250 or so shortly after it came out.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by ISL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @02:32PM (#17198822)
The 22mm f/2 is awesome. Even people who know optics well dismiss it as a toy on sight, but the image quality is great. The M is at its best with the 22 f/2. Small, unobtrusive, and capable.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by ddrmaxgt37 on Thursday May 31, 2018 @07:39PM (#17201308)
I really miss keeping my camera on and just tapping the shutter release for the camera to immediately turn on. Mirrorless is better for me in most other ways, but that feature still tempts me to pick up a DSLR again.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by msbarnett on Thursday May 31, 2018 @02:03PM (#17198548)
> Sony's incredible array of on-plane focus sensors and focus algorithms (Canon's DPAF may actually compete, if turned loose/optimized further)

I'm reasonably convinced that DPAF will probably work out better than Sony's approach in the long run – every photosite essentially doubling as a PDAF sensor seems more future proof than scattering 100+ dedicated PDAF sensors over the chip.

The problem with the latter is that if Canon can develop the software to really exploit DPAF (there's no reason in principle that you couldn't, say, let users chain together an arbitrary number of pixels into selectable AF points placed wherever they want outside of the extreme edges of the sensor), there's no good response with dedicated PDAF, because the more dedicated sensors you place on the chip, the more pixel gaps you create, and the more demosaicing algorithms are forced to infer pixel colours with missing mosaic values. There comes a point where the visual quality will suffer.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by shawnz on Thursday May 31, 2018 @03:19PM (#17199223)
> For a week at temperatures between -20 and -30 C, the 6D (and iPhones kept warm) operated normally while friends with mirrorless cameras suffered shutdowns.

This is clearly not due to the nature of mirrorless technology though, so I don't think it's fair to criticize the technology based on that.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by msbarnett on Thursday May 31, 2018 @03:54PM (#17199598)
I think it's more about the nature of battery chemistry and the relative loads SLR vs mirrorless setups place on batteries
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by ISL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @08:34PM (#17201543)
Yep, exactly. An SLR only needs a burst of power at the moment a photo is taken (and just before, to power the AF and exposure meter), while a mirrorless camera must keep the sensor and display/EVF powered continuously.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by bitL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @01:17PM (#17198143)
I also think mirrorless is the future; I am now selling my Nikon/Sigma DSLRs and going fully mirrorless (Sony), as focus issues seem to be finally resolved and photos are now beyond good enough level, already in great/pro level.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by remyM on Thursday May 31, 2018 @08:10PM (#17201426)
Yeah, I went mirrorless. Loving it so far. Definitely the future here, I love the ability to modify my settings and it shows on the LCD, instead of having to chimp like I did with my old 1200D.

Picked up a NEX 5N, 18-55, 55-210, and 16mm for $200AU (~$160US).

Next stop: A6000.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by msbarnett on Thursday May 31, 2018 @01:38PM (#17198345)
The current rumor is that Canon (and possibly Nikon as well) will reveal their first mirrorless Full Frame camera body at or just prior to Photokina, which happens in late September.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by msbarnett on Thursday May 31, 2018 @12:56PM (#17197913)
Canon had an early lead in sensor noise (they bet big on CMOS early on when most of the market was treating CCD as the future), from the early 2000s up until Sony moved to on-chip ADC around 2009-2010 and Nikon adopted their sensors wholesale.

It's worth noting that Canon has moved to on-chip ADC and that there's now only around a stop difference in noise between their sensors and Sony's, but from 2010-2016ish, Sony was certainly far ahead of the game.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by giobox on Thursday May 31, 2018 @02:08PM (#17198603)
Exactly this. Canon had significant performance advantages in the mid 2000s thanks to their bet on CMOS technology when almost everyone else believed CCD had superior image quality. This really showed in the clean high ISO performance one got in their DSLRs vs the competition at that time, and it took a long while for competition to really catch up.

This reminds me when the first “affordable” DSLRs from canon and Nikon arrived - both 6 megapixel models (the Canon 300D/Digital Rebel and the Nikon D70). The D70 was the better camera in a great many ways, but many buyers still chose the 300D to get access to the incredibly good for the time low noise CMOS sensor. I can’t count the number of discussions I had with friends looking to get a first DSLR debating the relative merits of those two landmark cameras. A later firmware hack for the 300D that gave it almost all the features of the more expensive 10D made this debate very interesting as well.

The past 5 years are less impressive though, for sure, with the great sensor hardware from Sony etc.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by CarVac on Thursday May 31, 2018 @01:31PM (#17198281)
Until 2007 Canon was far ahead of the curve, and they held on to parity until around 2010-2011. Shoot any camera from 2005 other than a Canon and the images will definitely have compromised image quality except in the best conditions, yet a 5D from 13 years ago still produces superb image quality.

Only starting in 2010-2011 did they stagnate in image quality for a time.

Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by bitL on Thursday May 31, 2018 @01:40PM (#17198366)
I think the break point was around the release of D7000 (APS-C) which suddenly matched (and surpassed in dynamic range) the immensely popular 5D Mk II (FF), the default choice of videographers and fashion/wedding photographers. Around that time 5D Mk II (and to some extent 1D) dominated.
Re:Canon has sold its last film camera by snowwrestler on Thursday May 31, 2018 @04:35PM (#17199984)
> What lead are you talking about?

Market share. The estimates I've seen are that between Canon, Nikon, and Sony DSLRs, Canon currently has the largest single share of the market.

Prior to Canon's work with CMOS sensors in the early 2000s, Nikon had the SLR and DSLR market share lead over Canon. (And basically no Sony bodies at all back then.)