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Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by philwelch on Sunday May 27, 2018 @08:36PM (#17169974)
The W is called "double-u" because it dates from the era when U and V were the same letter (the consonant and vowel versions diverged) and there was no W letter, but only a doubled-U. The phrase, "I want a veal sandwich on Tuesday" would have been spelled, "I uuant a ueal sanduuich on Tuesday" (or, alternatively, "I vvant a veal sandvvich on Tvesday"). This is also why u, v, and w are consecutive in the alphabet.

This is similar to why the & character is called "ampersand"--it was originally considered a letter, and instead of the alphabet ending in "x, y, and z", it ended in "x, y, z, and per-se 'and'".

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by p49k on Sunday May 27, 2018 @11:06PM (#17170392)
In Swedish, V and W were treated as the same letter and mixed together when sorting (in the phonebook, in database software, etc) until 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_alphabet#Uncommon_lett...

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by ptaipale on Monday May 28, 2018 @05:05AM (#17171409)
In Finland, it is still correct to treat V and W as equivalent when sorting (e.g. phonebooks). This applies both to Swedish and Finnish language and context. However, now it is more common to treat them as separate letters, which is also accepted.

(Finland is bilingual, and the characters sets, keyboards and sorting rules are same both for Finnish and Swedish.)

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by totalZero on Sunday May 27, 2018 @11:39PM (#17170470)
In Persian, the same letter makes the oh/oo sound and the v sound. Weird.
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by danans on Monday May 28, 2018 @01:34AM (#17170744)
That's because in the Arabic script, from which the modern Persian script is derived, doesn't differentiate between vowels sounds like oo/oh and their related semivowels.

In Arabic, oo and v are both bilabial sounds (produced using both lips). In Persian, v is pronounced more labio-dentally (bottom lip, top teeth), which is perhaps what causes the confusion.

But the lack of written distinction for these sounds is common in many scripts including Indian, Greek, and older Latin.

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by flashman on Sunday May 27, 2018 @10:19PM (#17170264)
The historical use of u and v can be seen in the Lord's Prayer from 1538:

> Our father whiche art in heuen,

> halowed be thy name.

> Let thy kyngdome cum vnto vs.

> Thy wyll be fulfylled as well in erthe,

> as it is in heuen.

In the first line we see how U was used within words for both U and V ('our' and 'heaven'). In the third line we see how V was used for words starting with U (as well as words starting with V).

Of course, this isn't universal, there are counter-examples of U used initially and V used medially!

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by philwelch on Sunday May 27, 2018 @10:29PM (#17170287)
Yeah, compared to my contrived example, U and V were usually differentiated for typographical reasons and not perfectly interchangeable (kind of like the S and the "long S" that looks like a lowercase "f", e.g. in the phrase "Congrefs of the United States" in the original Bill of Rights).

Another weird gray area between ligature and letter are the "æ" and "œ" characters, which are mainly used as ligatures for the British spellings of "foetus" and "encyclopaedia" but were, at some times, seen as actual letters. American spelling reforms erased this particular weirdness from our dialect.

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by kpil on Monday May 28, 2018 @03:12AM (#17171003)
I liked the story of young web developer who suggested a new glyph for 'Th' since it was clearly missing, blizzfully unaware of the letter Thor that had been used in English until printing became available.
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by groovy2shoes on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @06:57PM (#17192628)
I þink you mean þe letter "þorn" ("thorn") ;)

Ðere was also ðe letter "ðæt" ("that"), a later invention ðat began as a stylistic alternative to þorn in Old English manuscripts, but fell out of favour early in þe Middle English period (during þe 1200s or so).

Þorn continued to be used to a limited extent in early printed works of English. The <th> digraph started to supplant it already in manuscripts during the Middle English period, with <þ> being retained only in limited contexts well before the introduction of the press in Europe (contexts being primarily common sigla (scribal abbreviations) like <þᵉ> for "the" and <þᵗ> for "that", and occasionally when the scribe felt like they might run out of room on the line).

See some previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16059265

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by rangibaby on Sunday May 27, 2018 @10:43PM (#17170331)
& is made up of the letters E and T (et, and!)
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by philwelch on Sunday May 27, 2018 @11:40PM (#17170475)
Yes, which is why the & character is supposedly called the "empersand" in Scotland, for "'et', per-se 'and'".
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by TeMPOraL on Monday May 28, 2018 @12:32AM (#17170611)
> "'et', per-se 'and'"

I'm having trouble parsing this. What was the meaning of this phrase?

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by jwilk on Monday May 28, 2018 @06:03AM (#17171594)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ampersand has the following etymology for "ampersand":

A mondegreen of "and per se and", meaning "and (the character) '&' by itself", which is how the symbol (&) was originally referred to in English. This formulation is due to the fact that in schools, when reciting the alphabet, any letter that could also be used as a word in itself ("A," "I," "O" and, at one point, "&") was preceded by the Latin expression per se (Latin for "by itself"). Also, it was common practice to add at the end of the alphabet the "&" sign, pronounced "and". Thus the end of the recitation would be: "X, Y, Z and per se and." This last phrase was routinely slurred to "ampersand" and the term crept into common English usage by around 1837.

Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by jacobush on Monday May 28, 2018 @07:28AM (#17171851)
In Swedish, "by itself" is "för sig" that is, quite literally, "per se". (ö and e in "per" pronounced the same, "sig" and "se" pronounced the same.)
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by rowaway93 on Monday May 28, 2018 @07:27AM (#17171843)
This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard, is it april fools day? I read about "amper's and". Although I have no idea what an amper is, if memory serves the whole thing is related to merchant short hand, but it cannot get any more ridiculous than this joke somebody is having on you.
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by scottmf on Monday May 28, 2018 @08:58AM (#17172172)
Sorry but it’s true.
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by unhammer on Monday May 28, 2018 @02:56AM (#17170960)
"The last four letters of the alphabet are ecks, why, zee and 'and' as-one/by itself"
Re:Why “children,” not “childs”? (2016) by andrewshadura on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @08:36AM (#17178543)
You probably meant zed.