They're generally cool people, but they're just people. The Cult of the Dead Cow people especially --- I have nothing bad to say about any of them, but if you're idolizing them, ask yourself why you don't just become one of them. They're just a group of people who wrote tfiles, shared bulletin board systems, and had varying levels of engagement with computer security. Virtually every serious software security person who blogs is clearing a higher bar than they set.

The one thing everyone involved with the L0pht and cDc has that you probably don't is age; they were doing this stuff in the 1990s and had time to make a name for themselves. But things move so much faster now than they did in the 1990s, that differentiator gets less and less forbidding every day.

As someone who also sort-of idolized these groups in the past, I think it's more about what they used to represent instead of just who they actually were.

When I was still discovering the computer and internet world, they were already "giants" in the space, so of course they would seem like the epitome of what I wanted to achieve.

"I want to be like them and be able to do the stuff they do", i.e your standard role model feeling.

Which of course sounds silly once you grow older and realize you can be like them if you study and put the hours on it, but at the time, being so much younger, it just seemed magical.

I compare them to what the movie "Hackers" made me feel. I knew it was a completely fantastical representation of what hackers actually were (and you could even argue it was a bad-ish movie), but the fact that I could imagine myself being able to break into a TV network and putting the show of my choosing felt like magic. I guess it's the analogue to what Dungeons and Dragons was for a lot of people, imagining being a wizard and killing dragons.

So while I agree with you that they were just a group of people that got together to share knowledge and explore this new frontier, it was so ahead of what I could achieve at the time that it was hard not to look up to them.

Kind of how I (and I would guess, a lot of other HNers) look up to what you (and e.g. Project Zero engineers) can do with security and cryptography stuff :)

It's not that I think I'm not capable or competent enough to do it, just that I haven't walked the thousand miles you have. But of course, I'm now an adult that can rationalize these things, instead of an impressionable kid with dreams of grandeur :).

I understand that now, but when I was 14 in 1996 it seemed like I was reading about some forbidden secret magic. Now it just feels like a different career path. I'm sure a good part of that change is me getting older, and knowing more. Though I think that the rising level of professionalism in computer security has robbed it of it's mystique. I think this is a good thing overall, but nostalgia and what not.

> I think that the rising level of professionalism in computer security has robbed it of it's mystique

It has, though basically every one of the now-respectable-looking professional security outfits you could point to has one or more of these late 80s early 90s "mystique era" hackers working for it (and I can probably tell you what their old bbs handle and/or irc nick was).

That's a good thing; our field could use a lot more computer science and a lot less mystique.

I remember feeling the same way. The website is back now though: http://www.l0pht.com/

However the front page hasn't been updated since 2015.