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Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by drb91 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @06:19PM (#17138916)
I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis.

Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, and other processes.

Most of these controls exist, but in ways that don't map well to the desktop environment. How do I see what that adobe agent is doing? Sure, I can buy Little Snitch, but this should really be built into the OS. Too much of the UNIX model is designed to secure a user's information from other users, which simply isn't a massive concern these days when we often have dedicated workstations and have issues trusting the processes we run as our own user. What if I suspect my TODO list has a built-in bitcoin miner? I should be able to limit its use of the CPU and GPU.

Meanwhile, my editor still needs to read the configs of all my sandboxed apps, and whatever else I want it to access. This isn't necessarily an easy problem, but it's one I have confidence Apple could tackle, especially with mobile paving the way already.

All this time, docker has been innovating on the sandboxing, with mostly positive results. Android, I believe, runs each process as its own user, leveraging the existing UNIX controls better. I'm not sure what precisely iOS does, but it's locked down well enough to cause me immense frustration building stuff for my phone--not exactly what I'd like to see on the desktop, but they clearly have the ability to provide many of the controls I am looking for on the desktop.

I'm sure this would result in an improved UX as a result, TBH.

If not, Google is coming down the road with Fuschia.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by gnl on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @08:11PM (#17139702)
Yup. While I do need to use a number of third-party tools to get the UX like I want it (Hammerspoon, Hyperswitch, Spectacle and Quicksilver), they do exist, they work fine and I think this has more to do with my specific requirements than with any fundamental issues or missing features in the UX.

Going forward, advanced sandboxing is indeed one of the most important things that I would love to see Apple focus on. Ever since I first considered the possibility that apps can have individual access controls, probably around the time I first encountered SELinux/RSBAC and later AppArmor, I've been wondering why vendors aren't pushing this as an absolute top priority on the security front.

Meanwhile I'm using this:

https://beta.f-secure.com/key/XFence

It's Jonathan Zdziarski's Little Flocker rebranded after he sold it to F-Secure. It works great, but it does admittedly require an upfront investment.

2 caveats:

- Current version only works on Sierra (I'm not touching High Sierra until just before the next one comes out)

- Creating "any via" rules can lead to noticeable slowdowns, while "ancestor" rules, even though they are theoretically more expensive, don't (unless one overuses them, I suppose). It's probably a bug.

Other than this, I've been using it for over a year and have no complaints whatsoever.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by finchisko on Thursday May 24, 2018 @01:49AM (#17141407)
macOS has sandbox based on TrustedBSD MAC framework. However official documentation is non existent and implementation looks like unfinished product, but I've tried it and it worked. Recommend you to read "Apple's Sandbox Guide" pdf. https://reverse.put.as/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Apple-Sand...
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by gnl on Thursday May 24, 2018 @10:47AM (#17144481)
That looks like it might easily involve lots of fiddling, tweaking and dealing with obscure issues while XFence just works, which is worth a lot to me these days.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by SSLy on Thursday May 24, 2018 @07:22AM (#17142929)
Is there something akin to the little flocker for windows?
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by gnl on Thursday May 24, 2018 @10:45AM (#17144448)
Not that I know of. The only other comparable project I'm aware of (including relative ease of use as a criterion here) is Linux' AppArmor.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by _bxg1 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @06:27PM (#17138980)
Yeah, some (arguably most) of the missing features/core problems are due to the fact that OSX has been all-but-ignored by Apple for half a decade, but some of them are just due to the fact that the UNIX paradigms are becoming outdated. Google is trying to solve the latter problem with Fuschia, you're right, which is interesting. But so far that OS's UX also looks like it's primarily mobile-focused, even if it's designed to be adaptable to desktops too.

I think OSX's UX problems are mainly in the first category - Apple just doesn't care. Windows introduced snapping in Windows 7, nearly ten years ago. It is extremely useful and seems pretty easy to implement. As you say, you can always get a third-party application like the (fantastic) BetterTouchTool. But you shouldn't have to do that for something so fundamental. The very least Apple could be bothered to do is keep up.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by fiddlerwoaroof on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @06:30PM (#17139002)
I actually like having to use third party utilities for things like snapping, because it means I can pick the snapping paradigm I want, rather than the one Apple chooses for me.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by _bxg1 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @06:36PM (#17139058)
Gnome has built-in functionality, yet it can still be extended with third-party plugins. One doesn't preclude the other.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by fiddlerwoaroof on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @08:52PM (#17139965)
It depends on how the built-in functionality is implemented. If it's a plugin of some sort that I can remove/disable and replace, built-in functionality is ok. OSX doesn't generally pick that route, though.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by __sr__ on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:11PM (#17139308)
macOS does have — kind of — window snapping, doesn’t it? The split window mode? Or am I missing something? Although I agree that it should be more flexible and should have better keyboard controls....
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by _bxg1 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:29PM (#17139432)
It does not, or at least I haven't found it in the past four years of using OSX for all of my professional development.

It has multiple desktop spaces, fullscreen mode, and "expose". It used to be that clicking the green dot on a window expanded it in developer-defined ways that were often unpredictable, but that got replaced with fullscreen mode.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by __sr__ on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:31PM (#17139442)
I am talking about the Split View mode described at https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT204948
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by _bxg1 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:41PM (#17139504)
Huh. Well look at that. It's apparently hard to find, and it does appear that you're limited to splitting a "fullscreen" view - i.e., no menu bar, dock, or other windows - but it's better than nothing.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by __sr__ on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:42PM (#17139515)
Yeah — not to mention the lack of keyboard controls like Windows 10. Sigh!
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by sn0wfire on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @10:11PM (#17140464)
spectacle provides these features. But I agree, it should be part of the OS's UX
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by indigodaddy on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @10:50PM (#17140662)
Since finding out about Spectacle, I don't even really make use of BTT at all anymore, even though it is still installed and running...
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by dieterrams on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @09:18PM (#17140128)
If you option-click the green dot, the window will resize in the “classic” way.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by rorykoehler on Thursday May 24, 2018 @09:37AM (#17143814)
I don't know why you would want window snapping. It doesn't provide any benefit
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by creviere on Thursday May 24, 2018 @02:19PM (#17146789)
Scenario: I want to position three separate windows so that I can see and use all of them on a single screen. When I launch the three application windows, they launch stacked on top of one another.

With window snapping, I can use keyboard shortcuts to quickly position each window and have all 3 windows be fully visible in their own distinct space, without having to remove my hands from the keyboard.

If window snapping 'doesn't provide any benefit', then there must be some alternate method that achieves what I've described above. What is this alternate method?

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by rorykoehler on Thursday May 24, 2018 @08:51PM (#17149798)
You can realistically only look at one thing at one time. Having 2 windows side by side is useful when referencing one and writing in the other. Otherwise command tab to switch works way better.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by pier25 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:34PM (#17139459)
> If not, Google is coming down the road with Fuschia.

I'm also hoping Fuchsia will save us.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @08:25PM (#17139797)
I wouldn't count on it. Google doesn't seem particularly interested in the desktop at all. And if they were, then my worry is that it'll be seen like Windows 10 is now seen by Microsoft: as an "experience" (aka advertising platform), not a tool people use to get things done that should spend most of its time staying the hell out of the way.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by pjmlp on Thursday May 24, 2018 @08:18AM (#17143217)
At least they are bringing Android native apps and official GNU/Linux support to ChromeOS.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by pier25 on Friday May 25, 2018 @10:34AM (#17154077)
Have you completely missed all the advances on Chrome OS lately?
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by pjmlp on Thursday May 24, 2018 @03:43AM (#17141895)
While Fuchsia has some nice ideas, given its licensing expect the same update experience as Android.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by pier25 on Friday May 25, 2018 @10:35AM (#17154086)
I doubt it, considering the strategy Google followed with Chrome OS.

Time will tell.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by bhnmmhmd on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:56PM (#17139611)
How is Fuchsia pronounced? Is it like "f*ck+sia"? Or more like "fushia"?

Edit: looking up in dictionay, it's actually /fjuːʃə/.

Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by freehunter on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @07:58PM (#17139629)
It's a real English word. You can look it up in a dictionary.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by whyenot on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @08:27PM (#17139806)
The color is named after the genus of plants which is in turn named after the German botanist Leonhart Fuchs.
Re:OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out by grzm on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @08:00PM (#17139642)