the precision with which you said that is key. you can say things about populations that are not necessarily true of many, or even most, of the individuals in the population.

as a human, i can run, but how would you define running for a given cell? cells don't run, but a specific collection and configuration of cells can. other collections of cells can swim. still others do both.

Specifically, the actions you refer to are not perpetrated by antifascists as a whole. The groups calling themselves Antifa (a name shared by several specific antifascist activist groups in different countries) have several internal factions, and the violent protests that the news love to cover are specifically the actions of the minority black bloc factions of some Antifa groups, which are more or less autonomous "extreme activist" subgroups.

Normal Antifa paints over swastikas and run counter-protests against the KKK and similar groups. The black bloc activists tend more towards chaos and violence, out of a belief that violence is the only language fascists respond to, so they are fighting fire with fire, in their own words.

I don't dispute that some regular Antifa members turn a blind eye to black bloc actions, but certainly not all of them.

As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities.

Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite.

As a pacifist, I strongly support anti-fascism and ordinary Antifa, but I absolutely do not condone black bloc activities.

Do you oppose black bloc as vigorously and strongly as you've opposed fascism? Do you ever hold your tongue?

Decades back, there were people who hid their faces in masks, feeling strong in their numbers and anonymity, who created symbolic spectacles for their view of "justice." Some, not all of them, went around committing crimes of vandalism and even murder. These masks were white. Did any of the people who did not commit those crimes, but wore the same colors and held their tongues -- are any of them innocent, or are all of them complicit?

Until I see public communications from Antifa that they are opposing and repudiating the Black Bloc and their violence and vandalism, anyone with them who claims they are pacifists are hypocrites.

>“Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill republican or a libertarian or classical liberal or centrist with a fascist or nazi -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing Antifa have done so -- you are a hypocrite.“

Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill social democrat or a socialist or liberal democrat or centrist with a stalinist -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing right wingers have done so -- you are a hypocrite.

See how that works? Did we just alle collectively forget the name-calling that happens from the right whenever anyone even remotely left wing wins an election or enacts a policy?

For the record, I save the terms "fascist" and "Nazi" for actual fascists, including the ones trying to be cute about it (the dudes with "I <3 AH" t-shirts and the like).

No, I do not oppose black Bloc quite as vigorously as I oppose (actual) fascists and Nazis.

Why? Because fascists exploit, harass, beat up and outright murder those they seem to be lesser people, simply based on the color of their skin or their culture/religion.

Black Bloc beats up fascists and yes, cause petty vandalism.

You absolutely cannot draw equivalency between them. They are in completely different leagues.

That's sneaky. It's a meta-false-equivalency! You are trying to conflate equivalency in principle with equivalency in degree. Somehow, just a little violence and mayhem -- using authoritarian force to gain compliance -- is better because it is less. By that logic, a little rape better than a lot of it! Nice principle! In fairness, you probably just talked yourself into that, and didn't realize. You see, principles like human rights matter, and not adhering to them brings you into these contradictions.

Then, if you've ever conflated a normal run of the mill social democrat or a socialist or liberal democrat or centrist with a stalinist -- particularly without sufficient evidence -- or even if you've ever held your tongue while others representing right wingers have done so -- you are a hypocrite.

Fact: Many of those are equivalent in terms of being collectivist. The evidence is in on collectivist governments. (Which include Nazism and Fascism, by the way.) Stalinism is only the extreme endpoint. So people who do violence, do violence. Those who do not, do not. People who violate human rights are people who violate human rights. People who abet those violations, abet those violations. There is no contradiction there. The only equivalency is between those who would do violence to impose their political will on others who only seek to exercise their human rights to free speech. It's a moral equivalency on principle, as opposed to your intellectually bankrupt non-equivalency on quantity.

For the record, I save the terms "fascist" and "Nazi" for actual fascists, including the ones trying to be cute about it

Do you correct and speak out against your fellow Antifa who mess that up? Not doing so is basically like standing by while someone racially bashes someone. (An experience that I know first hand, by the way: being racially bashed while others stand around.) Lumping people into groups, when it hides the truth and short-circuits logic is disgusting to me. Standing by, complicit, when people smear others in your name is just as bad.

Black Bloc beats up fascists and yes, cause petty vandalism.

You absolutely cannot draw equivalency between them. They are in completely different leagues.

Then by your own words, you are alright with just a little bit of immorality, violation of human rights, and authoritarian use of force, just because you see fit to do it. A little bit of what fascists do -- beating people up and intimidating them for their view of "justice" -- is alright, because it's not as bad, being less in quantity than Nazis. Thanks for clearing that up.

Any movement that depends on the other side being worse to justify itself has failed to justify itself on principles. Such a movement is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

Good day.

>"your politics"

There you go again completely conflating wildly disparate political movements.

I'm primarily AnCom, not pro-authoritarian dictatorship ala Stalin. There's a pretty big difference, and calling an AnCom (or even just a run-of-the-mill socialist) a stalinist is a grave insult.

Unless you make up for that in a very big fashion, we're completely done here.