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Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @11:43AM (#17135049)
The article called Roth "one of the last great white males". I had to read that five times to make sure that phrase was actually used. wtf. How is this okay on any level?
Re:Philip Roth has died by danso on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @01:13PM (#17135891)
If you read that 5 times over, maybe it's worth including more of the context of the phrase:

> Mr. Roth was the last of the great white males: the triumvirate of writers — Saul Bellow and John Updike were the others — who towered over American letters in the second half of the 20th century.

Seems that "great white males" refers to a specific trio of writers -- all white men -- who were seen as the giants of American literature in a specific era in history.

What's your specific objection?

Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @01:26PM (#17136036)
That he used the term "great white males" when he should have used "Great Male Narcissists". Would a high school newspaper even make a mistake such as this? It's either sloppy, malicious, or both.
Re:Philip Roth has died by ams6110 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @03:34PM (#17137384)
If someone referred to a "great black male" writer would you be equally offended? Or do you object to mention of his race? His sex? These details help paint a picture. They are not mentioned to offend.
Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @04:19PM (#17137827)
If you read the article, he is defining this group of 'great white males' to be three writers who the literary world actually refer to as 'The Great Narcissists'.

https://www.dfwsociety.org/2017/12/02/call-for-papers-great-...

He specifically substituted 'narcissist' with 'white male' as if he's using it as a synonym.

Re:Philip Roth has died by Steko on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @05:01PM (#17138246)
Re:Philip Roth has died by danso on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @01:42PM (#17136191)
Sorry, I'm not following. Is "Great Male Narcissists" a popular pronoun in this context?
Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @03:58PM (#17137638)
Re:Philip Roth has died by danso on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @05:37PM (#17138570)
You've linked to something associated with David Foster Wallace, but the author of the NYT obit is not David Foster Wallace.
Re:Philip Roth has died by gazarsgo on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @01:35PM (#17136132)
Both terms seem equally redundant. Why stress?
Re:Philip Roth has died by runjake on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @11:52AM (#17135124)
Calm down.

I believe the term has to do with age, and not race.

It's a post-war (WW2) term that's been used for decades to describe Roth and certain other writers, such as Norman Mailer, Gore Vidal, Salinger, Bellow, Updike and others. It's a term to describe a group of certain authors that wrote about certain themes, similar to the Hollywood term "Brat Pack".

Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @12:27PM (#17135433)
Silly me, I didn't know "white" is a term that describes age.
Re:Philip Roth has died by runjake on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @01:13PM (#17135882)
It's often used (as in this case) a colloquial term alluding age via hair color (IOW, "white-haired" old people).
Re:Philip Roth has died by artpepper2 on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @03:02PM (#17137089)
I think it's meant to be a pun on "great white whale" - there's an idea of the "Great American Novel" which is the mythical book standing at the apex of American literature.

Moby-Dick is both a template for the Great American Novel and a convenient metaphor for authors who chase it. It's an old-fashioned way of thinking about the novel.

And this may be a contentious statement, but: It's probably not a coincidence that the traditional contenders for "Great American Novelist" have tended to be white males. Roth, Bellow, Updike, but also Hemingway, Pynchon, Gaddis, etc.

That doesn't detract from those authors' accomplishments. I think it says more about how the canon has evolved.

Re:Philip Roth has died by jessup on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @12:00PM (#17135209)
"Mailer, Updike, Roth-the Great Male Narcissists* who’ve dominated postwar realist fiction are now in their senescence, and it must seem to them no coincidence that the prospect of their own deaths appears backlit by the approaching millennium and on-line predictions of the death of the novel as we know it."

David Foster Wallace (1997)

http://observer.com/1997/10/john-updike-champion-literary-ph...

Re:Philip Roth has died by benkarst on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @12:29PM (#17135458)
The author of the article does not use "great white males" as a personal pronoun. Nor does the article you linked include any mention of race.
Re:Philip Roth has died by VoodooJuJu on Wednesday May 23, 2018 @11:52AM (#17135126)
It's not - the pendulum is beginning to swing in the other direction. People are starting to wise up to and reject these group identity narratives, as evidenced by the rising popularity of people like Jordan Peterson.