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Re:The Angry Rich by il on Monday September 20, 2010 @02:42PM (#1710005)
I just want to point out that most of the taxes you pay in the US do not go to the upkeep of society you may benefit from (which we can define as schools, police, education, etc).

Most of your tax money either goes to propping up a bloated military-industrial complex, maintaining bases overseas, counterterrorism ops, foreign aid to oppressive regimes, etc etc.

If you're a pro-tax liberal you're probably against high defense spending, but you're perfectly happy to keep funding it with your tax dollars.

Just food for thought.

EDIT: If you want to quibble, the majority of discretionary spending is military(not counting Social Security/Medicare). Since that's where your income tax dollars go, it's a reasonable argument to make.

Re:The Angry Rich by gvb on Monday September 20, 2010 @03:04PM (#1710088)
Statistics are only a google search away. At least make an attempt at a citation to support your assertion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY... (FY 2009 per the actual graphic, despite the file name)

Re:The Angry Rich by lutorm on Monday September 20, 2010 @02:53PM (#1710044)
It's true that if I had grown up in the US and not in Sweden, I might be more tax-averse than I ended up being... There is a difference between what you get in practice for paying your taxes in the US and the principle of taxation in general.

One of the things that amaze/frustrate me about the US taxes is that noone ever suggests that maybe the military budget could be cut by 50% or so...

Re:The Angry Rich by nollidge on Monday September 20, 2010 @03:40PM (#1710239)
Oh, people suggest it often enough, but they're successfully shouted down afterward (which is probably why you haven't really heard of them).
Re:The Angry Rich by kenjackson on Monday September 20, 2010 @02:48PM (#1710024)
These claims need citations.

And remember, we don't just pay federal income taxes. We also pay state incomes tax (most states), sales tax (most states and locales), property tax, item taxes (like luxury taxes), FICA tax, etc...

While I'm sure a LOT of money goes to the military, I'm not sure I believe it is most of it.

Re:The Angry Rich by il on Monday September 20, 2010 @03:09PM (#1710105)
Maybe if more Americans knew how much we were spending on war they would be less inclined to support it. "Death and Taxes" is a well-known and clear infographic of government spending: http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/

It shows military and security spending as 63% of the 2011 budget(895 billion).

The discussion here seems mostly about the income tax, so I'm focusing on that. I'm not morally opposed to paying taxes to live in a civilized society. I AM opposed to two thirds of my money being spent on instruments of death and building up the American war machine.

Re:The Angry Rich by DannoHung on Monday September 20, 2010 @03:15PM (#1710131)
63% of the discretionary budget.

If you look at non-discretionary spending as well, you'll see that it's like.. less than 20% of the money spent.

Re:The Angry Rich by il on Monday September 20, 2010 @04:31PM (#1710393)
Right, all I was saying is that the majority of the _income tax_ you pay goes to military spending. I'm not counting FICA, as nobody is discussing raising or lower those taxes.
Re:The Angry Rich by jbooth on Monday September 20, 2010 @03:40PM (#1710243)
"If you're a pro-tax liberal"

Have you ever, once in your life, met someone who identified as a "pro-tax liberal"?

Didn't think so.

Re:The Angry Rich by il on Monday September 20, 2010 @04:22PM (#1710371)
I'm just drawing a distinction. I would describe myself as an anti tax liberal.
Re:The Angry Rich by jbooth on Monday September 20, 2010 @04:27PM (#1710387)
Eh, I think both of those are silly framings. Nobody likes paying taxes.

I'm a "pro balanced budget" liberal, and that meant that throughout the Bush years I was saying "Hey, we're gonna have to pay for these tax cuts eventually", while simultaneously saying "Hey, let's cut defense and homeland security spending because at least 1/2 of it is BS that doesn't make us safer."

Not like I love the idea of paying more taxes, or of quote "big government" - I just give basic arithmetic a lot of respect.

Re:The Angry Rich by il on Monday September 20, 2010 @06:21PM (#1710705)
If nobody likes paying taxes then, why don't we as a society legislate ourselves lower taxes and cuts in defense spending?

I believe there is a famous quote about that.