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Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by ericcumbee on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:04PM (#17094449)
My cousin in the early 2000s worked for a R&D company who did some work on the early generation of sniffer machines that detected trace residue of explosives, and biological agents in airports. He had to go to a meeting and flew from Atlanta to boston with a prototype of the machine. He packed it in his carry on case along with his basic tool kit. When he got to security screening he realized that he also had vials of simulants for anthrax, sarain, various explosives, etc etc in that case. He gets into the security screening line and the TSA guy starts asking him all kinds of questions and he just knows he is about to get detained for the simulants which were not clearly marked as such. Instead the guy is like “You can’t take that screw driver with you”
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by dragontamer on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:10PM (#17094506)
This was figured out in an Dept. Homeland Security "red team" test of the TSA a few years ago, where the TSA failed like 95%+ of the tests against them: https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-undercover-dhs-tests-fin...

I think the TSA has switched strategies recently, and they've been improving since then. But ultimately, its not the "bag check" where the TSA catches goons, its the random more intense check that they do these days. And sure, going from 95% failure to 80% failure isn't much of an improvement, but its still going to change the calculus of an attacker. When you have a 20% chance of failure before you even board the airplane, that's an issue to your plans.

Furthermore, TSA includes air marshals and the Israeli-style "behavioral" cops who are scanning airports. These are the more successful cops at the job, and the ones we are relying upon for real.

I wouldn't discount the entirety of the TSA just because of the failures of the bag-check program. Again, US Air marshals (armed cops who sit on every aircraft secretly with plain-clothes) are under the TSA and I think the US Air Marshals contributes a LOT to our real security.

Unfortunately, the bag-check thing is mostly security theater, but at the same time, the more "serious" checks vs attackers are more hidden and less well known (as it should be). But security theater might be enough to discourage an attack, or at very least cause our enemies to focus on the bag-check (when our REAL security really lies with other programs). So its a useful distraction IMO. There's a bit of "wink-wink lets not talk about this" going on that you need to understand though.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by hyder_m29 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:27PM (#17095341)
> I wouldn't discount the entirety of the TSA just because of the failures of the bag-check program.

Bag check programs are focal to these discussions because they cause the most inconvenience to passengers.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by fosk on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:31PM (#17094685)
> US Air marshals (armed cops who sit on every aircraft secretly with plain-clothes)

Do they really sit on every flight?

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by Tushon on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:35PM (#17094721)
No, just on the basic numbers we have available, it would not be possible.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/13264/are-air-m...

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by matwood on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:52PM (#17094924)
No, but I had one sit next to me on a flight to Vegas once. It's a long story, first how we suspected and then when he admitted it as we got off the plane. They do exist though.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by freeopinion on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:51PM (#17096301)
Oh, well, if he admitted it, then he must have been a real marshall.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by bonzini on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:10PM (#17095140)
How did you suspect?... (And, who's the other person in the plural?)
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by matwood on Saturday May 19, 2018 @11:04AM (#17108149)
Some friends and I were on the way to Vegas. We had a few drinks and I guess hit the limit they serve on a flight. We had been having a conversation with a guy next to us about small talk things, joking, wharever. This guy then looks at the stewardess and says “they’re fine, and there is no need to cut them off”. She then kept bringing drinks until we landed. At that point we started joking he was an air marshall, and he laughed it off.

Once we got in the terminal he kinda flashed his ankle holster and told us to have fun on our vacation. Also mentioned something along the lines that we had made a normally boring 5 hour flight entertaining.

I should add this was 10+ years ago.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by wise0wl on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:17PM (#17095955)
The sky-marshal-starter-pack, of course: https://i.redd.it/w67t4ogdmx8y.jpg
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by Someone1234 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:47PM (#17094853)
Nope, but I've had one sit next to me before on a US bound international flight (in 2005 ish). So they definitely exist.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by globuous on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:02PM (#17095031)
Interesting ! So they are also on international flights going to the us ! How about outbound international flights where the jet is full of fuel over the US ?

Btw, how did you recognize he was a FAM ?

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by Rebelgecko on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:38PM (#17094749)
No. The percentage of flights with air marshals is in the low single digits.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by knz on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:59PM (#17095005)
Which makes sense. A JFK to AMS flight is probably a much higher risk for terrorism than say FSD to MOT.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by Rebelgecko on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:08PM (#17095115)
According to the article I read, they're actually less common on flights out of NY and Washington DC- there were pilots complaining that they hadn't seen an air marshal in 6+ months. It sounds like they avoid putting marshals on flights that have other law enforcement officers on them, which is going to be a good chunk of the domestic flights to/from big cities
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by matwood on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:57PM (#17094979)
I have an engraved money clip that happens to have a small 2" maybe pocket knife on it. I would routinely forget to leave it at home, and after the 3rd time of spending $20 to mail it back to myself I finally stopped carrying it.

I'll never forget one TSA agent who accusatorially said he didn't think I was purposely trying to break the law because it was engraved.

Don't even get me started how often my wife gets 'flagged' for extra security.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by pavel_lishin on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:46PM (#17095553)
I've carried a knife blade (approximately an inch), and a screwdriver-type tool onto flights with zero issues many times. I have had to mail back a Leatherman supertool, and since then have never brought it.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by RyJones on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:36PM (#17094736)
Sniffers only detect tagged explosives that are carelessly handled.
Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by ericcumbee on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:44PM (#17094822)
I don’t know where or what happened with this machine, as he was the technical lead for his company and they were a sub-contractor on the machine. But it was supposed to be a lot more sensitive accurate and smaller than what they had at the time.

From my understanding they completed their part of the contract and never heard anything else about it.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by RyJones on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:07PM (#17095099)
I think it is an unsolvable problem. There's nothing particular about explosives that makes them easy to discriminate from non-explosives.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by philipkglass on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:31PM (#17095368)
The vast majority of explosives can be quickly differentiated from non-explosives by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry.

The main practical impediment to detecting concealed explosive material is that some of the explosive substance needs to pass through the GC-MS to be detected. So an explosive with extremely low vapor pressure (e.g. pure PETN) will not be readily detected this way. Plastic explosives made from PETN are more readily detectable, because the plasticizers are more volatile than PETN itself. GC-MS also won't work if the explosive is hermetically sealed so that none of it can reach the detector.

There are also methods based on e.g. terahertz spectroscopy, but AFAIK GC-MS is the most specific and common method of identifying explosive materials.

Re:Drone Maker Accused of Covering Up Bomb in Bag on Delta F... by facetube on Thursday May 17, 2018 @05:37PM (#17096157)
They actually test for both components of binary explosives in the US TSA. Source: a TSA agent, while he was going through all of my things because I guess I touched a cleaning product with ammonia in it or something.