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Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by sharkweek on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:19PM (#17075103)
A step in the right direction, but I still can't believe forced arbitration was ever a thing, especially in these cases.

Still haven't re-installed Uber in over a year, don't miss it at all.

It does make me wonder how many ToS I've agreed to with forced arbitration clauses written on page 84 in size six font.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by bln_wgc on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:45PM (#17075316)
Lyft for example? Or Airbnb? They have forced arbitration clauses as well.

We'll see if they match Uber's commitment here.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by gnicholas on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:59PM (#17076676)
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by adamsea on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:21PM (#17075669)
Commitment is yet to be seen .... this is an attempt at change though, for sure.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by ProAm on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:53PM (#17075379)
I think its more important for Uber because they have a history of their drivers committing rape. I don't know if there are cases of that for Lyft or Airbnb but I have not heard about it from those companies.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by googlemike on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:57PM (#17075424)
What does the ride hailing service and infrastructure (platform?) have to do with the drivers beyond screening them to the best of their ability? It's like saying Mcdonalds, the post office, or any large employer should be held accountable for the crimes of their employees.

I googled the most trivial of searches and got dozens of responses, here's a few. In any of these cases, is it really fair to say any of these were Uber's fault? Or Lyft's? I do not think so. Do you?

https://nypost.com/2018/03/05/woman-raped-twice-trying-to-ta...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/fl-sb-davie-...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rape-victim-suing-l...

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/boone-county/...

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by ProAm on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:02PM (#17075479)
Whether it's their fault or not, I believe a person should have a right to sue and lose, especially in cases of rape. You are right that Uber/Lyft/etc will likely be found not at fault, but then there is the case where Uber stole a customers medicals records in one of these rape instances [1] in which a lawsuit is more than fair for the victim.

[1] https://www.recode.net/2017/6/7/15754316/uber-executive-indi...

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by googlemike on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:08PM (#17075539)
Agreed. My point was merely that this is a great move from the consumer perspective, one that I doubt other companies will follow.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by ProAm on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:19PM (#17075648)
Yeah it is a great move. I think the other companies will follow suit once they have an incident that causes the same level of bad PR that Uber has experienced. Once it starts to cut into their profits they will jump on board, sadly it always comes down to money.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by malandrew on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:16PM (#17086072)
The other thing you can do is reward the companies that lead on these issues with your business so you encourage others to do the same.

It's carrots and sticks. If a company doesn't do what you want, try sticks (punish them for not doing what you want) and carrots (reward those that do so others see that they should do the same).

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by cortesoft on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @05:50PM (#17078182)
I think it depends on what happpens. If someone with no prior record commits a crime, it shouldn’t be Uber’s fault... if they get complaints about a guy, but let him keep driving, that would be more of an issue.

Basically, was there something they should have done differently that amounts to negligence.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by lhorie on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:40PM (#17075894)
What's more, ride hailing drivers aren't even employees to begin with in most jurisdictions, and in many cases, the drivers working with one ride hailing company actually also work with the other(s).
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by bln_wgc on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:55PM (#17075398)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-lyft-drivers-sexual-assaul...

Incidence rate is similar on both platforms.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by malandrew on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:11PM (#17086022)
It happens with all these companies, you just don't hear about it because they aren't companies that those that work in the mainstream media love to hate. Neither of those two companies generate nearly as many pageviews as Uber because Uber touches an order of magnitude more lives.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by zethraeus on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:24PM (#17075699)
Why do you think it could be substantively different between Uber and Lyft? It seems incredibly unlikely to me. I see basically no cultural difference between these platforms.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by austenallred on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:54PM (#17075388)
Because of forced arbitration?
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by jbigelow76 on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:27PM (#17075155)
It does make me wonder how many ToS I've agreed to with forced arbitration clauses written on page 84 in size six font.

The vast majority of them, at least, all of them wouldn't be surprising.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by whyaduck on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @04:42PM (#17077695)
If you're in the US, then, at a minimum, you've agreed to one for every credit card in your wallet, as well as every other financial account you have.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by TwoNineA on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:34PM (#17075218)
"A step in the right direction"

What semi-decent human being inside Uber came up with this? How can people still work for this evil company?

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by lhorie on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:08PM (#17075528)
> How can people still work for this evil company?

Uber has been doing a lot recently (i.e. as of about mid last year) to fix itself - things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips, a top-down directive to permanently halt spying-related work in intelligence gathering, cooperating with authorities on the Tempe incident, etc.

Generally speaking, people aren't inherently evil and want to do the right thing. Uber's new leadership now does too. Uber moves fast and I think it's time to re-evaluate whether the data points backing your opinion are outdated.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by gaius on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:46PM (#17075959)
things like better misconduct-handling process for employees, more frequent background checks for drivers, the implementation of tips,

Still not paying their taxes tho’. There’s a shedload Of Employer’s NI they owe us.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by lhorie on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:11PM (#17076208)
> Still not paying their taxes

Sorry, not familiar with this and googling isn't turning up anything. Is this the IRS's opinion or just your own?

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by DanBC on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:31PM (#17076404)
"Employer's NI" means "employer's contribution to national insurance" - a UK tax.

Here's one article: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-t...

There are many more.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by malandrew on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @04:24PM (#17086128)
They pay NIC on their employees, but not their driver partners. The driver partners like all contractors in the UK are responsible for paying their own NI. I don't see why the contracting company is responsible for enforcing tax law for its partners?

Self-employed people in the UK pay class 2 and class 4 NIC. Those that are class 2 pay £2.95/wk on earnings of £6,205+ per year. Those that are class 4 pay 9% on annual profits of from £8,424 to £46,350 per year. They pay 2% on profits over £46,350.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by lhorie on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:40PM (#17076489)
Ah, thanks. I'll read up on that
[dead]
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by lhorie on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:39PM (#17076474)
Oh, in the UK. Thanks, that helps me find more information.

I'm not too familiar with taxation matters, but again, afaik, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether the IRS/HMRC/other countries tax depts are pursuing tax evasion charges, right? Is this actually the case?

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by rectang on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:39PM (#17075250)
> What semi-decent human being inside Uber came up with this?

Susan Fowler advocated for ending forced arbitration as the "the single most important thing a company can do to prove to its employees that it is dedicated to acting ethically, legally, responsibly, and transparently":

https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech...

No-forced-arbitration should be the norm.

What other companies have the worst forced arbitration clauses?

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by Lionsion on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:56PM (#17075403)
> No-forced-arbitration should be the norm.

I'd go further to say that forced arbitration should be illegal/unenforceable without clear evidence informed affirmative consent, and that the offering of services cannot be made conditional on accepting it.

I think a lot of the consent concepts pioneered in the GDPR could be reasonably applied to many consumer-unfriendly practices.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by gowld on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:34PM (#17076422)
We have a lot of that in finance, like when you get a mortgage -- you have to sign a bunch of separate documents, one for each major concession. Informed consent may help, but it won't solve the root problem of "selling your fundamental rights", which some consider "unconscionable" (legal term for an agreement that is barred by law even if both parties claim they agree to it)
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by s73v3r_ on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @04:09PM (#17077431)
One of the key provisions of the GDPR is that the provider cannot shut you out of the service if you don't give consent, unless the data is vital to the operation of the feature. And needing to use the data for targeted advertising doesn't count.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by zethraeus on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:25PM (#17075715)
Because it's not actually evil. Source: my personal experience. :)
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by iamcasen on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:51PM (#17076031)
Right? The public perception of Uber over the years has been fascinating to me. I worked there for quite a while, and I always had a laugh at how the media would portray something. It was almost always grasping at straws in an attempt to paint Uber evil.

There has been legit bad news about Uber, especially the stuff Susan Fowler talked about. But you know what? We all give money to equally, or often times far more sinister organizations on a daily basis without batting an eye-lash. Why hold Uber more accountable than everyone else?

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by Karunamon on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:16PM (#17076267)
And most of that negative perception appears to come from Uber's early (not so much, anymore) flouting of what could charitably be described as regulatory capture nonsense.

It basically took them coming in and ignoring the taxi laws to put the lie to the entrenched interests and say "See? The world didn't end after all."

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by gowld on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:35PM (#17076434)
We hold everyone as accountable as we can. Not sure why you think differently.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by iamcasen on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @03:55PM (#17085887)
I'm glad you do, but I don't think that's true for most.

You see constant praise of Lyft, but constant demonization of Uber. Lyft has quite literally done all of the "dirty" business tactics that Uber has. In fact, most of the reason Uber started operating UberX in cities without express permission is because Lyft was already doing so, and Uber noticed that there was no backlash against them for it.

Unfortunately for the tech world, sexual harassment and misogyny is all too common. There are numerous reports about women in tech, and how hard it is and why many of them ultimately leave their careers. This is not something that has only occurred at Uber, and yet, all of the news about it is about Uber. All of the outrage about it is directed at Uber. For some reason, it's fun to hate on Uber, and it always has been.

Let's hold Uber accountable, but let's also hold every other company accountable too. Let's have equal outrage for google, facebook, snapchat, and every other tech company that has done the same stuff. Let's have outrage for Blackwater(or whatever they changed their name to now): a company who literally profits off murder and the destabilization of world order.

I say all of this as someone who experienced a lot of negativity while working for Uber, and I would never work there again. I don't think it is an "evil company" I just think they have chewed up and spit out a lot of folks on the way to the top.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by zethraeus on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @02:16PM (#17076275)
IMO: Uber fucked up tremendously before. It's not doing so now.
Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by ben_jones on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @12:41PM (#17075275)
A lawyer being paid to mitigate risk for the company using industry best practices? Uber has 6700 employees are you calling them all bad people for choosing to make a living working for one of the premier tech companies? The world isn't black and white where you're on the good side and those people tangentially related to that thing you don't like are bad people.

If we really want to improve on these problems we can't be so self-righteous.

Re:Uber Eliminates Forced Arbitration for Sexual Misconduct ... by icebraining on Tuesday May 15, 2018 @01:17PM (#17075632)
You're tangentially related to your full time job? I think your employer is getting ripped off.

The world is not black and white, but that doesn't mean we can't consider that certain groups have crossed a threshold (or ten) to one side of the spectrum.