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Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by zeth___ on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:10AM (#17029946)
I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by pwinnski on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:21AM (#17030028)
The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by icebraining on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:38AM (#17030152)
It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true

How so? What matters is the price at the time of transaction, no?

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:32AM (#17030109)
What is the crazy part?

I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000.

I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by chriswarbo on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @01:35PM (#17031856)
> If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.

The currency you're using is USD, since that's how Taco Bell set their prices and it's how you're measuring the value of your bitcoins (via the exchange rate).

I've yet to see any business set their prices in bitcoin. Everyone accepting bitcoin payment is setting their prices in fiat currency (e.g. $2), and accepting an equivalent amount of bitcoin (based on market rates); i.e. treating bitcoin as a payment gateway rather than a currency.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by beojan on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:51AM (#17030265)
And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by ric2b on Monday May 14, 2018 @01:56PM (#17067743)
Just as much as you kicked yourself for spending $2 on Taco Bell instead of buying Bitcoin at the exact same time.

It's the same thing.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @11:04AM (#17030366)
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by beojan on Friday May 11, 2018 @05:54AM (#17046036)
To buy Bitcoin, sure. When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it.
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by ric2b on Monday May 14, 2018 @01:58PM (#17067764)
> When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it.

This a completely emotional argument, there's no logic behind it, you could also regret spending $2 at Taco Bell instead of on Bitcoin.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by WrtCdEvrydy on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:14AM (#17029968)
Coinbase transactions are done 'off-chain'.
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by zeth___ on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:17AM (#17029996)
So the decentralized solution to a centralized banking system needs a centralized totally not a banking system to work?
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:31AM (#17030103)
You'd think this would bother me, but I only keep spending money in coinbase. Keep the rest offline.
Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:30AM (#17030099)
Coinbase Peer to Peer using email is free and instant.

Shift card had like a 10$ fee for printing the card, but its free and instant.

The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by TeMPOraL on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:40AM (#17030171)
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you're using Bitcoin gives you no magical crypto guarantees the currency is supposed to offer?

I increasingly feel that pro-crypto arguments are mostly motte and bailey. So Bitcoin is better than fiat because it's decentralized and censorship-resistant, with everything forever stored in the blockchain. It's also more convenient and efficient than fiat in daily use - when we discard all the decentralization and anti-censorship guarantees, skip the blockchain and use it as a private-issued, unregulated fiat.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by maehwasu on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @11:02AM (#17030340)
He gets the "magical crypto guarantees" for 99% of his money, and only waives them for a small part that is "in-flight."

This isn't at all different from the way many people separate their investments and savings accounts from their checking accounts, except that in this case, the investment/savings accounts get "magical crypto guarantees."

This isn't rocket science.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:47AM (#17030225)
> when we discard all the decentralization and anti-censorship guarantees, skip the blockchain and use it as a private-issued, unregulated fiat.

That is an option.

I dont care about 'trust' when I spend 2 dollars at taco bell on my shift card. I dont care about 'trust' when I give my friend 200 dollars with coinbase email.

5 bitcoin? Yeah I'll take that out of coinbase.

But this is a payment platform IMO. I use paypal and venmo too. They dont charge fees and I dont really care about decentralization magic.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by spookthesunset on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:36AM (#17030140)
> The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.

So you used a "totally not a bank, but really a bank" bank, eh?

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by mkirklions on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @10:45AM (#17030205)
Why are payment processors/banks bad again?

2FA > a piece of paper under my bed.

But also I keep my bitcoin in lots of places, a few bucks in coinbase for free transactions is like keeping cash in my wallet.

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by chriswarbo on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @01:56PM (#17032088)
> Why are payment processors/banks bad again?

It's a matter of opinion. However, the only reason for bitcoin to exist is to avoid banks and payment processors. Hence it's illogical to make heavy use of coinbase/etc. regardless of what opinion you have.

Bitcoin has many downsides (volatility, no recourse, vast energy usage, paranoid wallet security, high fees, long confirmation time, etc.) and one upside (no need to trust processors/banks).

If you think that processors/banks are bad, then you might find that the upside outweighs the downsides, and make many on-chain bitcoin transactions. Yet you shouldn't use coinbase/etc. in this case, since they're a bank/processor, hence you'd be removing the only upside that bitcoin has.

On the other hand, if you don't think that processors/banks are bad, then the upside of bitcoin isn't worth all of the downsides. You might as well use regular currency, with all of its advantages over bitcoin (instant payments, lower fees, lower volatility, recourse, less paranoid security, etc.). In this case there's no need to use coinbase/etc. because there's no need to use bitcoin.

Those intermediaries do serve a role in converting between traditional currencies and cryptocurrencies, but it only makes sense to use them occasionally, e.g. buying a stash of bitcoins and immediately 'withdrawing' them to your private, on-chain-only wallet. If you're regularly converting back and forth, or maintaining a non-zero balance on their systems, you would always be better off doing something else (either sticking to fiat, or sticking to crypto).

Re:The Wealthy Are Hoarding $10B of Bitcoin in Bunkers by ericb on Wednesday May 09, 2018 @03:49PM (#17033323)
> However, the only reason for bitcoin to exist is to avoid banks and payment processors.

Not true. If your purpose is holding inflation-resistant money, payment processors and bitcoin banks may be perfectly ok.