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Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by splouk on Monday May 07, 2018 @02:51PM (#17015342)
Or jaywalking will become more strictly enforced with policing or physical barriers.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/4/2/automated-vehic...

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by bryanlarsen on Monday May 07, 2018 @03:14PM (#17015563)
That's a very good argument but I don't think it will come to pass, for this reason: http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences/cutting_off

There's something about driving that turns ordinary people into assholes. I've observed it in myself. Bus passengers are much more considerate, and I think that passengers in self-driving vehicles will behave like passengers, not like drivers. So if a pedestrian cuts them off they'll just shrug and keep playing their game or whatever they're doing.

I hope.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by ksenzee on Monday May 07, 2018 @03:55PM (#17015950)
My theory is that people act like jerks behind the wheel, and come across as jerks even when they're not, because drivers have no way to apologize or ask please or do any other polite thing. All they can do is honk the horn, which is like yelling "HEY!!" If there were a communication mechanism for "excuse me, the light is green now" and "oops, so sorry, didn't see you there" driving would be easier and more pleasant.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by rhacker on Monday May 07, 2018 @06:06PM (#17016862)
I feel like in large cities the majority of drivers actually practice "mean" driving techniques - tailgating, lane protection (preventing people from merging-in when they have to), zoom-ups near contest areas, loud-music in communities, lane weaving.. I've left the bay area a long time ago now, but it's amazing when you live outside of that a couple years how awful people are behind the wheel. I would call it passive-aggressive behavior and it is really really bad to ones mental health. Bay area, Denver, Portland, Seattle there's a few others out west here - but make no mistake, the actions people take while driving is 100% actual jerk, not mistaken jerk.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by zamber on Monday May 07, 2018 @05:57PM (#17016813)
In Poland there's an unwritten custom of saying thanks by flashing emergency stop lights for two ticks. The most common use case is when someone lets you through when they don't have to.

On freeways the same is used by cars coming from the opposite direction if there's a radar ahead.

Still, in peak hours pretty much everyone is a dick, even usually chill Uber drivers.

Edit: it's also used as a "sorry" signal too.

Also, this is not local. I've seen it used all around the country.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by mantas on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @12:30AM (#17018830)
Definitely not local. Pretty much a given in Lithuania too. If someone lets you in etc, it's just rude to not flash emergency lights. Even if somebody squeezed in like total dickhead during a rush hour

We use headlights to warn of friends waiting on the other side of the bush though.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by bencoder on Monday May 07, 2018 @06:51PM (#17017122)
Also seen in London
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by scaryclam on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @10:18AM (#17021029)
And the rest of the UK :)
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by themaninthedark on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @11:38AM (#17021707)
Japan as well
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by panic on Monday May 07, 2018 @04:58PM (#17016437)
Exactly! Every communication you try to make in a car can be interpreted as aggressiveness, which escalates anger on both sides. You need a way to de-escalate.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by paulific on Monday May 07, 2018 @05:47PM (#17016738)
Yes, in Japan there is a custom of briefly tooting the horn to say thank you (for example when someone lets you in in front of them) and they still have problems when people have different ideas of what constitutes "too long".
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by patrickdavey on Monday May 07, 2018 @06:15PM (#17016923)
Hah! I come from Ireland where the custom is also a brief flash of the emergency indicators to say "thanks". I then moved to New Zealand where they toot the horn to say thanks. I was most confused when I got tooted (rude in Ireland) for letting someone pass easily. I was like * buddy ;) then I realized what was going on, well, eventually anyway :)
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by lttlrck on Monday May 07, 2018 @08:52PM (#17017879)
Ha. In Boston I used to get frustrated at oncoming drivers flashing their lights at me. What was I doing wrong? Are my headlights misaligned? Is something falling off? Do I know you? Eventually I worked it out: they were warning me of a police cruiser ahead.

In a state known for Massholes it’s surprisingly unjerkish.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by rm_-rf_slash on Monday May 07, 2018 @04:41PM (#17016316)
Dangerous driving can result in damage, injury, or death. That is why people are so volatile behind the wheel. I don’t think there is any system of communication that can prevent or stop road rage. Dampen, maybe, but that’s about it.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by eric_h on Monday May 07, 2018 @10:44PM (#17018422)
If the internet has taught us anything, it's that anything that facilitates conversation facilitates all types and styles of conversation. I'd posit that a more sophisticated inter-car communication system would add at least one new road rage incident for every one it prevents.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by tlrobinson on Monday May 07, 2018 @09:28PM (#17018103)
Paradoxically, in some places horns are used much more liberally and if you spend much time there that's the feeling you start getting from a honk. Like a "hey just wanted to let you know I'm behind you".
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by c22 on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @12:18AM (#17018791)
When I travelled from India to Nepal I noticed that both places had liberal horn usage, but in Nepal almost all of the horns were musical. They felt much more pleasant than the same custom in New Delhi.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by SmirkingRevenge on Monday May 07, 2018 @04:48PM (#17016359)
They often find other ways to express their jerkiness, like stepping on the gas, swerving around you and cutting you off, or aggressively tailgating, or you know... hand gestures.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by bsder on Monday May 07, 2018 @06:11PM (#17016898)
> There's something about driving that turns ordinary people into assholes.

Game theory with no further interaction so no consequence to defecting other than the immediate.

The problem is that there is always somebody willing to be a jerk to save 2 minutes since nobody wanted to be stuck in traffic. The only defense against that is "Do unto before done unto" and that turns everybody into jerks.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by 8bitsrule on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @03:34AM (#17019469)
The world is already overly car-centered. If cars can't see and stop for people, then they've become an expansion of that problem. I live in a place where, once you're off the curb on corners where there's no light, cars are required to slow/stop for you. Many people will voluntarily do that even if you're NOT off the curb yet. It feels like a courtesy.

The scenario you're describing, OTOH, feels even more alienating than what we're already suffering. What in the hell gives you, sitting on a seat in a car, more right to travel through a space than a walking human being?

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by icebraining on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @06:48AM (#17020035)
Many people will voluntarily do that even if you're NOT off the curb yet. It feels like a courtesy.

Eh, as a pedestrian, I hate that. I have to conscientiously turn my back to avoid impeding the traffic when I don't want to pass!

Still, I agree with you; self-driving cars that can't be trusted to slow down and stop for pedestrians should not pass the licensing requirements. And not just for humans, either; we're not going to teach other animals to follow traffic laws any time soon. I've already seen too many cats killed by assholes speeding over the limit on residential streets.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by skrause on Monday May 07, 2018 @05:23PM (#17016587)
If stricter enforcement of jaywalking laws is required for self-driving cars to work, you can already forget about those cars in almost all other countries where jaywalking laws don't even exist and certainly won't be accepted in the future.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by marnett on Monday May 07, 2018 @03:27PM (#17015690)
if this happens i will surely protest self-driving cars. cities should be built for pedestrians, not cars.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by zdragnar on Monday May 07, 2018 @04:56PM (#17016419)
Don't protest self-driving cars, protest the laws you feel shouldn't apply to you. After all, there are plenty of other reasons jaywalking laws might become more strictly enforced.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by fjsolwmv on Monday May 07, 2018 @07:55PM (#17017529)
The term "jaywalking" was a slur invented by car companies to steal rights from pedestrians. If cars can't avoid people, the cars need to be separated by physical barriers or removed.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by zdragnar on Monday May 07, 2018 @09:04PM (#17017953)
This is in no way contradicting my point.

A pedestrian may illegally have entered a road, but still have right-of-way, and self driving cars will need to account for that.

However, protesting self driving cars will not change whether walking in the street is legal, since it already is not.

Therefore, whether you do so and get fined by police is entirely up to their discretion, which could change at any time for any reason.

If you want it to be legal, protest the illegality, not the car company.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by jkFeiwi on Monday May 07, 2018 @11:54PM (#17018691)
If I'm not mistaken, car makers first lobbied to outlaw jaywalking. So if it's anything like the past, protesting self-driving cars and protesting the laws will amount to the same thing.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by zdragnar on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @08:40AM (#17020489)
The laws are already on the books. Police could choose to apply heavier enforcement regardless of whether or not self driving cars become a thing.

If the law itself is unjust or inappropriate, protest the law.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by resonantjacket5 on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @08:16AM (#17020377)
Lol or perhaps jaywalking laws should be loosened if they're not being applied anyways in most cities.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by zdragnar on Tuesday May 08, 2018 @08:49AM (#17020522)
It depends on the city. My nearest metro does enforce them... at locations for which a particularly large number of people are wont to illegally cross, such as around the University.

Otherwise, enforcement is spotty at best, because the police have better things to do, such as ticket parked cars with expired tabs or meters.

If there were a sudden uptick in pedestrian-car collisions, you can bet they'll crack down.

None of the above addresses whether the law SHOULD be on the books, which is what people should put their efforts towards changing, if they feel is unjust. Protesting car companies that make self driving cars because they don't like an already existing set of laws is just misguided at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by munk-a on Monday May 07, 2018 @08:32PM (#17017756)
They already aren't built for pedestrians in most of the world. I'd be happy just removing the chance that I get killed by a car because the driver wasn't feeling good that day.

That said... I think passengers in self-driving cars will learn to be more patient and we can allow self-driving cars to yield to pedestrians more often.

Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by pretendscholar on Monday May 07, 2018 @07:16PM (#17017282)
There's something really repulsive about this solution that I can't really eloquently articulate. Every advance in technology seems to further restrict and control people.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by vinay427 on Monday May 07, 2018 @03:04PM (#17015481)
We do it for many pedestrian crossings across railroad tracks, so it's not unprecedented, but obviously on a different scale.
Re:Uber vehicle reportedly saw but ignored woman it struck by princeb on Monday May 07, 2018 @07:39PM (#17017400)
or less for increased safety:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space