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Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by karlkatzke on Friday April 27, 2018 @03:19PM (#16943520)
I know that we're pretty pro-privacy around here, but I'm gonna just go ahead and suggest that everyone not rape or kill someone.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by dannypgh on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:09PM (#16943897)
The issue with this use of technology is it creates an air of science to investigating large groups of people.

It's easy to imagine a world where if they find someone that's likely a first (or second!) cousin of a rapist, that they then surveil the entire family and use that as evidence for warrants or other investigative tactics. In this case they cross referenced the familial identification with other factors, but imagine if they hadn't? They might have put a tail on everyone who shares a common grandparent or great-grandparent.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by maxerickson on Friday April 27, 2018 @08:30PM (#16945473)
How high should the bar be for doing some surveillance?
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by dannypgh on Saturday April 28, 2018 @11:52AM (#16948196)
Legally: This depends on the type of surveillance. Reading someone's first class mail requires a warrant. Posting a car on public streets to observe them requires nothing.

Ethically: law enforcement finds most violations of the law in places they look, so if it's unfair where they're looking, it's easy for that to translate into unfair outcomes. A society where police are watching every Capulet but not investigating the Montagues is one where most of the arrests will be of Capulets, regardless of who is actually committing crimes.

Therefore, when talking in populations, surveillance approximates punishment and familial surveillance approximates collective punishment of an extended family.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by vkou on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:17PM (#16943944)
The problem is not for the rapist or killer, the problem is for someone innocent getting matched as one.

If you run a 99.99% accurate match against a database with 100,000 people, one of whom is the criminal, you are going to get 10 false positives.

If you're one of those false positives, good luck convincing a jury that the 99.99% accurate test is wrong in your case. There's a reason for why general warrants, and most kinds of fishing expeditions are illegal.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by pfdietz on Saturday April 28, 2018 @10:40AM (#16947838)
This procedure was used to identify leads, not conclusively prove someone was the killer. For that, they use DNA from the suspect himself.

In this case, an man in Oregon was earlier a suspect, but direct DNA comparison ruled him out.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by tathougies on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:27PM (#16944006)
The prosecution has this mans DNA. His relative's DNA likely matched a lot of people. Obviously, they didn't arrest the entire family. It seems likely that they will collect his DNA and attempt to match it to the DNA in his semen. If they get a match, then there is a high likelihood he is the suspect.

More likely, though, they will get a full confession. Serial killers often love to explain their work and take a lot of pride in confessing, because they're really messed up people.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by cat199 on Friday April 27, 2018 @09:12PM (#16945599)
parent is talking about the false positive cases - not the actual matches..
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by dmm on Friday April 27, 2018 @03:41PM (#16943685)
DNA evidence is often collected from fingerprints and it has been shown in many experiments that people can pick up and deposit DNA from other people.

As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to.

If DNA evidence is being used to narrow down a small group of suspects this is less of a problem than if you are searching a population scale group.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by tathougies on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:25PM (#16943998)
> As a result your DNA can be found at a location you have never been to.

Sure, but how could it possibly be linked to you?

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by nowarninglabel on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:44PM (#16944138)
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/04/19/framed-for-mur...

You already exist in a criminal database, comes up as a hit, police create a narrative to fit it, even though it is a false narrative.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by microcolonel on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:28PM (#16944015)
Through the implication of samples collected from others, at locations you have never been to.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by tathougies on Friday April 27, 2018 @04:51PM (#16944194)
How could that be linked to you? Suppose my DNA is on the person I brushed on the street today. How would a government agent be able to prove that whatever DNA they extract from his coat sleeve is mine? In order to do so, they would have to have a sample of my own DNA. It is unlikely a judge would sign a warrant for my DNA, given that I am not even suspected of any crime.

You argue that a judge could issue a warrant on an innocent person. However, warrants are only issued if there is enough plausibility that a person could be guilty of a crime. At the point the warrant is issued, the government can now force you to give your DNA. But that could happen right now.

Ultimately, in this case, the FBI barely exercised any of their authority. They didn't do any backroom dealings or use 'secret' laws. They just signed up to a genealogy website where people freely share their DNA information with the DNA sample voluntarily given to them by a rapist and murderer. The rapist has no right to any kind of privacy after giving his DNA away. Moreover, no one has any right to prevent a person who shares their genetic information from not disclosing it.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by ggg9990 on Friday April 27, 2018 @05:13PM (#16944373)
> How would a government agent be able to prove that whatever DNA they extract from his coat sleeve is mine?

Because your cousin was arrested in 1999 for burglary and held for 30 hours until they realized they had the wrong guy.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by fenwick67 on Friday April 27, 2018 @05:56PM (#16944772)
You can easily get somebody's DNA without their explicit consent btw. Just go through their trash.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by microcolonel on Friday April 27, 2018 @05:18PM (#16944415)
> Suppose my DNA is on the person I brushed on the street today. How would a government agent be able to prove that whatever DNA they extract from his coat sleeve is mine? In order to do so, they would have to have a sample of my own DNA.

That is exactly what the article is about: using large genetic databases to find DNA they have never collected in connection to an investigation.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by tathougies on Saturday April 28, 2018 @12:44AM (#16946101)
They never collected the rapist's family's DNA. All the FBI has ever had access to was the rapists DNA (from his semen). They matched it using a service that his relative opted into. The rapist has no right to control relative's DNA.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by pfdietz on Saturday April 28, 2018 @10:39AM (#16947830)
And I believe it wasn't even a close relative. DNA matching can identify relatives many generations separated from someone, by finding stretches of DNA with the same set of specific mutations (haplotype) that have not yet been broken by recombination.

What this means is that getting just a small fraction of the population into this database will enable it to provide leads for any DNA sample.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by UncleEntity on Friday April 27, 2018 @07:12PM (#16945154)
> The rapist has no right to any kind of privacy after giving his DNA away.

Umm...

The person who shared their DNA was neither a rapist or murderer but was simply related to one.

Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by tathougies on Saturday April 28, 2018 @12:43AM (#16946098)
Right... but how did they have anything to match it too? They have the rapists DNA because he left his semen in the women he raped.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by otakucode on Saturday April 28, 2018 @03:27AM (#16946525)
There is a chance, admittedly probably not a good one, that my DNA could be in a database associated with a rape or murder. Maybe yours might be as well. When I was in high school, I found a bit of cloth in the woods. No idea where it came from. But it got used to clean up after some coital fun and then discarded (I think in a parking garage?). Who knows where it eventually landed and whether it was taken as concrete physical evidence of my involvement in something? If only not being found guilty of things was as easy as not hurting anyone...
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by joering2 on Saturday April 28, 2018 @12:28AM (#16946066)
Your statement doesnt make sense. as a male, you are naturally capable of rape.
Re:Open-source DNA website GEDmatch helped crack Golden Stat... by sametmax on Saturday April 28, 2018 @05:37AM (#16946851)
But a lot of us like freedom and democracy. And given than my grandpa stilll has a number tatooed on his wrist, I really wish people would start taking human database as a threat. The potential for abuse is way too great to be ignored.