Using national numbers isn't really useful. The case study of the $50k ironworker in Seattle is well below the median for that city which has a median income of $80k.

And the 50k worker in the story is 20 years old. I'm sure he has a lot of potential salary growth.

Or a chance at destroying their body by the age of 35.

That $80k is household income.

Keep in mind the median full-time income is about $52,000 for a 40 hour per week job. The median full-time income for average hours (which is lower than 40), is about $45,000.

That $31,000 median figure includes all the people working part-time. It substantially disorts what your expectations should be for full-time labor in the US.

But presumably some of these are bright kids who could make that rate on their sophomore year engineering internship. It'd be silly not to attend university and instead do the $60k trade route for most of the HN audience.

The type of kid that can make $30k in a sophomore internship is the same type of kid that will end up running their own $TRADE company making a 6 or 7 figure annual income.

What makes you think the skills required for both of those are the same?

At a certain level of abstraction, intelligent and sociable people who can get things done have the capacity to rise to the top in any occupation they choose to enter.

Without debating the specific skill sets needed in each (of course they vary based on field of choice, this is obvious), all of the “blue collar” multimillionaire business owners I know have the three traits I listed above. Ditto for the “white collar” multimillionaires.

It’s also interesting that they have similar problems (again in abstraction) — hiring, training, and retention. The nitty gritty details differ, but the problems sound awfully similar to me.

There are probably a few more characteristics and problems that I could list, but these were the ones that came off the top of my head.

At a certain level of abstraction, everything is an idea and therefore the same.

Are we from the same planet? I've met more than a few people that went to top 10 CS schools and couldn't get a girl's number to save their life. Barring disfigurement, if you can't manage something as basic as getting a girl's number, you simply don't have the requisite social skills needed toget survive in that type of business world.

Being smart at one thing doesn't mean you can be smart at anything you apply your mind to; there are cultural and biochemical reasons that can be preventing you from being good at something. Because I dont have the time right now, I'll leave an excerpt that might help to elucidate what I'm saying:

When the animals decided to establish schools they selected a school board consisting of Mr. Elephant, Mr. Kangaroo and Mr. Monkey, and these fellows held a meeting to agree upon their plans. “What shall the animals’ children be taught in the animal school? That is the question,” declared Mr. Monkey. “Yes, that is the question,” exclaimed Mr. Kangaroo and Mr. Elephant together.

“They should be taught to climb trees,” said the monkey, positively. “All my relatives will serve as teachers.” “No, indeed!” shouted the other two, in chorus. “That would never do.” “They should he taught to jump,” cried the kangaroo, with emphasis. “All of my relatives will be glad to teach them.” “No, indeed!” yelled the other two, in unison. “That would never do.” “They should be taught to look wise,” said the elephant. “And all of my relatives will act as teachers.” “No, indeed!” howled the other two together. “That will never do.”

“Well, what will do?” they asked, as they looked at each other in perplexity. “Teach them to climb,” said Mr. Monkey. “Teach them to jump,” said Mr. Kangaroo. “Teach them to look wise,” said Mr. Elephant.

“intelligent and sociable people who can get things done”

i think he’s more taking issue with the fact that you said anyone pulling that internship could start a business. i’ve met a lot of laughably socially inept people with Big N gigs

Exactly

$30k in 4 months is practically a 6 figure income already, and not uncommon for CS sophomores working at larger tech companies. I think you're really overestimating the skill needed to get that level of pay.

I think if you rule out CS majors at top 20 (ish) schools/progams, I think that you will find the number of CS major sophomores getting these types of summer internships rounds to zero, and the exceptions exist largely due to pre-existing personal contacts.

I would suggest that most CS majors at top 20 schools/programs grossly underestimate how hard it is to do what they have done.

I know plenty of Cal State CS majors who only dream of jobs like this. These relatively lucrative jobs aren’t really that common for mediocre students at mediocre programs.

Selection bias. You're also assuming that those people are even interested in engineering.

That includes people who don't work at all and people who only work part-time. When looking at a full-time job, it would be better to compare only to other full-time workers. Last quarter the median weekly wage for full-time workers was $873[1]. That's a bit over $45k/year. I would not consider 20-30% above average particularly high-paying for a job that is difficult and physically dangerous.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm

But where are those high paying trade jobs located? For high paying construction trades, it's going to be in the big cities where the high rises are being built. $55,000 may be way above the median for the country but it's barely getting by in places like SF, NYC, LA, Seattle, etc.

You know that in all those cities there are people living on minimum wage right?

Those people living on minimum wage in big cities tend to have a lifestyle we don't even want to talk about. They tend to be immigrants who cram themselves with a large group into tiny apartments where everybody sleeps in the same room.

If you don't want to do that you're going to end up paying way more, hence barely getting by with $55k.

Median household income for NYC is $50k https://project.wnyc.org/median-income-nabes/

The problem is that there has been a long ongoing systematic suppression of wages and professional salaries. I make less today as a senior engineer than my first job out of school with no experience after adjusting for inflation and COL. Remember, $65,000 today was only $45,000 in Y2K dollars which was middling to low-ball for entry level engineering work at the time. Would that be considered high paying for a doctor or lawyer?

It’s probably above average for an entry-level American lawyer, once you cut out the tiny number of graduates who make it into the big law firms with fixed starting salaries of $160,000: https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/the-toppling-o...

Some of these people are farmers living in Bumblefuck, IO, though, where $31,000 can mean you live like a king.

Not everything is available to the rich. I work at an infinitely rich tech company (as many do) and we still can't find people to fill positions, 'cause they don't exist.

Similarly, a poor person and rich person in middle of nowhere Iowa can get the same amount of Iowa (though whoever's less time-poor wins) but neither of them can buy living in NYC.

My point still stands. A dollar isn't worth the same anywhere you go. Looking at national median income isn't really useful.