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Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by hedgew on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:01AM (#16919418)
Each year the internet and its services are less and less for hackers and more and more for the general public. This is reflected in how everything is designed.

The average person has totally different needs and usage patterns than power users. If you want to avoid this phenomena, where the services you use slowly degrade and lose features, favor products that specifically target power users. Products for the general population, like Android, Youtube, and Windows, will over time degrade more and more towards some lowest common denominators.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by coldtea on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:25AM (#16919544)
>Products for the general population, like Android, Youtube, and Windows, will over time degrade more and more towards some lowest common denominators.

There's a problem with this theory though, that the utility of some of these programs is in how many users (and thus content, etc) they have

So we can't really "favor products that specifically target power users" as YouTube or Google Maps alternatives -- or, rather, we could, but they'd be weaker in the polish, content, user base department (e.g. Vimeo or some advanced Maps platform)

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by gepi79 on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:20AM (#16919525)
"The average person has totally different needs and usage patterns than power users."

There is no average person. Different person have different use cases and preferences. No person wants known liked things to be removed or made less good.

Apple devices are meant for Apple power users. I use Windows and Linux (KDE) and I am uncomfortable and constraint on Mac OS.

There is a reason why people spend (or spent) hours to discover and learn even their phone or TV software.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by golergka on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:21AM (#16919826)
> No person wants known liked things to be removed or made less good.

Have you missed dozes of HN posts and threads about git being overcomplicated and overengineered? A lot of software engineers would love for git to remove a lot of features they don't use because they find it too complex. (For the record, I personally don't agree with them at all, but it is a very popular opinion).

Hell, many routinely rebase and squash commits for the sake of simplicity, throwing out a truthful development history.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by coldtea on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:26AM (#16919545)
>There is no average person. Different person have different use cases and preferences

Even so, most people are more alike than different.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by pelario on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:08AM (#16919454)
Nice thought, but what would be the alternatives for Android, Gmail, GMaps ?
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by 2RTZZSro on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:16AM (#16919502)
Alternative for Android? puri.sm phone. DIY rpi phone. Gmail? Fastmail. GMaps? OpenStreetMaps/OsmAnd
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by r3bl on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:03AM (#16919725)
Purism phone still doesn't exist. You can't buy it.

It annoys the fuck out of me when someone says that a phone that still doesn't exist and isn't available for purchase is mentioned as an "alternative".

It will become an alternative once it's out. Until such time comes, stop mentioning it when discussing alternatives.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by chatmasta on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:58AM (#16919695)
A DIY RPI phone? Is that a serious suggestion? Is anyone actually doing this?

And what’s the point if the baseband is not open?

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by taneq on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:37AM (#16919602)
LineageOS is pretty good, I've been using it since the Cyanogen/Lineage split.
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by sterlind on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:25AM (#16919542)
For example, my setup:

Gmail: any email service

Android: root it, use a custom launcher and utility apps.

GMaps: Waze (lets you provide your own speech samples, even)

You don't have to secede from these whole platforms - just extend around them and reach into them.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by samstave on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:11AM (#16919772)
Pffft

You’re examples:

Google

Google

Google.

Your examples are all fucking google.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by sterlind on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:26PM (#16926341)
Could you explain how "any email service" means Google? Is ProtonMail a Google service?

OP's question was about how power users can keep UX control while services degrade their features to cater to average users. That's what I care about, not ideological purity in my software stack.

People like you are the tech equivalents of the militant vegan.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by golergka on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:22AM (#16919830)
So? These are still different products, even if they happen to be acquired by the same company.
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by SuperGent on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:19AM (#16919521)
So why can't we have the option of using 'power user' interfaces? Also I doubt that Youtube has ever been for powerusers..
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by coldtea on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:27AM (#16919550)
>So why can't we have the option of using 'power user' interfaces?

Because that means more money and effort spend by the vendor to maintain 2 sets of interfaces (and extra flags and features they could just cut entirely),

and that for the benefit of a tiny sliver of its user base, and the worst and most picky at that.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by y_molodtsov on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:38AM (#16919603)
Power uses can utilize native clients, which they actually do.
Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by Applejinx on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:36AM (#16919592)
You're assuming changes have any utility towards people in general. There are times changes will be made because they benefit the service provider at the expense of the user, because the service provider's interests are not at all the same thing as the user's interests.

I realize it's axiomatic that 'to serve the customer is self-evidently the best thing for the service provider, because capitalism', but by now I think that is obviously marketing spin to cover actions in self-interest… no matter who claims it. Starkly, obviously false.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by roenxi on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:12AM (#16919778)
Customer: a person who buys goods or services from a shop or business.

Gmail users are clearly not customers, they are not paying anything for it. Your cynicism against capitalism is unwarranted in this case.

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by rusk on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @04:55AM (#16919677)
less and less for hackers and more and more for the general public

I think this is the "excuse" but to me it seems like it's as much about "locking down" as "dumbing down".

History moves in cycles [0] and I'm seeing something like how we transitioned from Home Computers to game consoles in the mid 90s.

Hackers are experts at getting value out of equipment that the manufacturers never expected, and this is what you want with a nascent technology, to help build a market. But as things mature, as a business you want to lock down more and more of this creative potential for yourself and lock in the revenue.

We've seen it with music like this: Vinyl (locked down) -> tapes (hackable) -> CDs (locked down) -> CD Writers -> MP3s (hackable) -> Streaming (locked down) -> ... (tapes? [1])

We've seen it with home computing like this: Pong & Atari -> Commodore, Spectrum, Apple II -> NES, Master System -> Amiga, Atari ST -> SNES, Genesis -> PC -> Playstation -> The Apple Renaissance -> The Ripened Apple

Even on a smaller scale I can see Apple's pivot from "Rip, Mix, Burn" [2] to doing away with personal music altogether over the course of 10 years [3]

Or my PS4 where I'm more and more likely to just download a game now than go out to the shops and buy a disc.

At each stage there is a trade-off. You get a slightly more polished product, but you lose a certain degree of agency over it. I guess it's cyclical because the "locking down" goes a little too far and then people loses interest and then you need to bring in the hackers again to jump start the community once more. I'm sure there's some tie in with the innovators dilemma [4]

I think the only popular industry I can think of that has resisted broad-scale hacking is the movie industry. I can only speculate that the scale, and political importance meant they had to always stay ahead of the curve.

[0] https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-comi...

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/06/cassette-tapes-are-back-ki...

[2] https://www.macworld.com/article/2934175/think-retro-rip-rip...

[3] https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/04/06/apple-shutting-i...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator's_Dilemma

Re:A rundown of the new Gmail by aero-002 on Wednesday April 25, 2018 @05:07AM (#16919746)
fucking normies