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Re:The ‘Terms and Conditions’ Reckoning Is Coming by kbenson on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:46PM (#16886362)
> That I write my code in brainfuck is of no consequence to someone, unless that brainfuck is potentially going to incarcerate them.

If you write software to control medical equipment in Brainfuck, it's potentially of consequence to a great many people. Same for autonomous driving routines.

Trying to make things clearer is a good cause. Expecting that everything can be made clear enough for the average person is a fool's errand.

Do we expect the circuit layouts of CPUs to be understandable by everyone? Because we are surely affected by those, in very many aspects of our lives.

Do we expect the full engineering and aeronautics behind an airplane to be understood by everyone? Everyone who flies puts their lives on the line based on those principles and the engineers getting it right.

Do we all expect to understand the numerous ways in which our bodies can get hurt, or interact with chemicals, or develop diseases? We trust doctors to figure out the complications there.

In each case, we've trusted domain experts to sort through the very complex topic and distill the knowledge into a useful form for us. In each case, we also generally know a core amount of the topic to help us navigate the everyday portions. CPUs work by providing a very low level core set of instructions that can be followed. Airplanes work through thrust, airflow and lift. Our bodies deteriorate over time, and if we put bad stuff in, they don't do as well, and some common diseases are known (cold, flu, etc).

The law is no different. There's a core set of things people are aware of. As things become more specific, or a problem happens, we call in domain experts to help.

Expecting everyone to be able to read all of the legal code will never happen, nor should it happen. It's expecting too much out of the average person, and would also require the law be dumbed down in ways that were detrimental to it's interpretation.

Re:The ‘Terms and Conditions’ Reckoning Is Coming by mieseratte on Saturday April 21, 2018 @05:55PM (#16893632)
> The law is no different. There's a core set of things people are aware of. As things become more specific, or a problem happens, we call in domain experts to help.

Using Brainfuck is an extreme example but you're taking it to its logical conclusion - off a cliff.

The difference is, the law affects and is applied to everyone. Contracts can and do affect the average person. However, only a domain expert has do deal in code.

We do not expect or require a normal person to read a 5,000 LOC piece of software, or risk giving up rights to participate in everyday society.

> Expecting everyone to be able to read all of the legal code will never happen, nor should it happen. It's expecting too much out of the average person, and would also require the law be dumbed down in ways that were detrimental to it's interpretation.

I'm certain we can put together a reasonable "tl;dr" requirement for contracts targeted at the layman, e.g.

"""

- You may use this application (See: Section A)

- You will pay X per month (See: Section B)

- Late fees may apply (See: Section B, Sub-Section 2)

- We may collect user data (See: Section C)

- We may sell user data (See: Section D)

- We reserve the right to update the terms of the service (See: Section E, Sub-Section 1)

- We reserve the right to cancel service for any reason (See: Section E, Sub-Section 2)

"""

Make the tl;dr non-binding so long as a reasonable person, a typical legal standard, would understand the legalese to have the outcome.

One need not write a "literate contact," nor abandon all of our legal history, terms of art, etc. to improve things to make them more approachable for a normal user.

Re:The ‘Terms and Conditions’ Reckoning Is Coming by kbenson on Sunday April 22, 2018 @03:35PM (#16898072)
I have absolutely no problem with trying to make legal documents, contracts, TOS, etc more readable by providing additional information. I just think the idea of replacing what we have with something more like regularly spoken English would be problematic at best, because a lot of the problems we have with interpreting the law are because it's so close to an actual spoken language, and Human languages thrive on ambiguity.