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Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by Robotbeat on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:33AM (#16855486)
Empirically, what other US car company is making as big of a difference in greening transport?

No car company, particularly in the US, is in even the same league as Tesla when it comes to advancing electric cars. “Oh, but it’s just a niche”... the Model 3 is already outselling the Bolt, and the Model 3 has a lower base price and is just at the beginning of the ramp up curve.

It doesn’t have to be this way. Other car makers are perfectly capable of building EVs & the associated infrastructure. Musk isn’t magic, but empirically no one else really seems to care. So of course people just tear down the only company actually doing something significant here, because modern intellectual discourse is primarily about “deconstruction” and cynicism.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by Doctor_Fegg on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:47AM (#16856344)
> Empirically, what other US car company is making as big of a difference in greening transport?

Assuming you're not fixated on "car company" per se (because why should corporate form matter), then Janette Sadik-Khan and NYCDoT have probably made a bigger difference in greening US transport than Tesla to date. And worldwide, of course, there are countless contenders.

"Greening" is only half the battle: the other half is liveable cities and streets. Personal motor transport makes that worse, whether electric or internal combustion. If Musk delivers on better public transport then Tesla can claim some credit there, but as yet there's nothing to show.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by gamblor956 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @01:30AM (#16855741)
Sure, let's pretend the Prius hasn't been around for 2 decades making eco-friendly cars fashionable...
Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by Robotbeat on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:43AM (#16856053)
Prius proves my point. It ain’t electric (and therefore it’s only a marginal improvement, not one with the potential for utter decarbonization...), but it has everything needed. It proves that traditional automakers could be making EVs left and right, but they aren’t. Oh, and Toyota isn’t US.

Seriously, put a bigger battery in an old Prius, add a charger, and hack the firmware to keep the engine off (and enable higher speed electric), and you have a full EV at even highway speeds. So why didn’t they do it but Tesla has? It’s amazing how much crap Tesla gets even though they’re the only ones with the guts to go full electric (and thus potentially zero emissions... already better than Priuses without being, you know, Priuses).

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by rohit2412 on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:18AM (#16857973)
> Seriously, put a bigger battery in an old Prius, add a charger, and hack the firmware to keep the engine off (and enable higher speed electric), and you have a full EV at even highway speeds. So why didn’t they do it but Tesla has?

Because fanboys don't buy vehicles if somebody else sells it, just look at Chevy bolt. They need the futuristic hype of full self driving and the patented saving the planet. And also, Tesla can afford selling at a loss, nobody else can.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by Robotbeat on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @12:30AM (#16864619)
I drive an EV not made by Tesla. GM barely markets the Bolt/Volt (which are great cars) at all, mostly just trying to reach other EV buyers. GM also lobbies against any fuel economy standards.

But suppose you’re right, that the only way Tesla has been able to sell so many EVs is by fanboyism, by Musk’s hype machine. But that then deserves your praise not derision, as Musk has been able to make EVs cool to the masses. If EVs must be hyped to gain traction, and Musk successfully hyped them, then Musk deserves the credit even more.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by rohit2412 on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @05:00PM (#16871148)
For that yes he does deserve praise.

For lies about self driving, for horrible working conditions, for the endless stupid statements about v automation/ai in general, and for causing an obnoxious fan base, there is criticism.

Just because Tesla made cars cool doesn't mean they get to create the narrative that no one else wants to make electric cars

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by Robotbeat on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:51AM (#16873410)
> Just because Tesla made cars cool doesn't mean they get to create the narrative that no one else wants to make electric cars.

Tesla isn't creating that narrative, their competitors are. None of the major US car makers really do want to make electric cars, that's just a fact. And few others do, with the exception of maybe BMW, chinese firms, and nissan, but even there you have slow-rolled updating to EV. Porsche is serious about it, but also are not trying to make a mass market anything.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by rohit2412 on Friday April 27, 2018 @02:37AM (#16938832)
My point was that making EV vehicles that aren't susbstandard in their features (interior materials) and sell at a good price wasn't profitable. Batteries+Motors were too costly. Tesla managed as their fanboys would buy costly cars of substandard quality.

Now you'll see that dozens of electric cars will roll out in 2018-2022. But you'll come out and tell me that Tesla showed these guys that electric cars were possible.

Ever wonder why Nissan leaf always had a small range and wasn't "fun" to drive? because batteries and motors are costly.

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by jacobush on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @02:27AM (#16856007)
Keeping them unfashionable
Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by sitepodmatt on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:42AM (#16856320)
The problem is usually the smug owners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFn1WEaYY3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIjnmVkzOM4

And Telsa, whilst more innovate than a Prius seems to have created latest generation of smugness (at least it seems that way on Twitter and their new model 3).

Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by michaelt on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @04:53AM (#16856600)
If a reputation for asshole owners was a problem, how would BMW still be in business?
Re:The Boring Company raises $112M from Musk, early employees by jacobush on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @06:49AM (#16857126)
Rich, cocky assholes. Not smug weenie assholes. People defer to the former.