So... do you need a laptop for that or an eReader?

Granted eReaders were a niche at the time of OLPC, we didn't fully grok where laptops fell on the useful vs distracting scale and the idea of a general purpose computer you could also teach kids to code on seemed really really cool and probably the best way to on-board them onto the internet.

All in all, OLPC's heart was in the right place, but until we know how to properly introduce computers into the classroom as a general purpose educational device, something more like a rugged eReader and open source textbooks feels like it would be more productive in accomplishing at least some of the goals of OLPC.

If you ignore the question of whether an eReader is something with an eInk display, an eReader is just a general-purpose computing device that has for some reason been limited to reading books, so "do you need a laptop or an eReader" doesn't seem to me to be a terribly meaningful question.

The difference is a laptop is custom built, with the required infrastructure to serve the role of a general purpose computing device.

An eReader can serve the role of a general purpose computing device, but it would not serve that role as well as a laptop.

So if you optimize a rugged poly-carbonate brick you could take through a Monsoon, Typhoon, Sandstorm and/or War Zone for the sole purpose of loading text and simple document files and a low-power display, stuffed with only a battery, enough compute power to accomplish the task it is given and cover any overhead, and enough storage to hold however many books you decide you want it to hold, without any graphics or sound (or perhaps very simple graphics), then you still have something meaningful.

You have a Library of Alexandria that any kid can carry in their arms without any of the ideological attachments that the XO had. It holds information in a human readable format and is capable of displaying that information to the person who holds it so long as they are literate.

Much like a modern day light bulb can be a general-purpose computing device that for some reason has been limited to turning on and off in different colors. It might not seem terribly useful to you, but it thanklessly serves the role it has been tasked with without a source code button, a mesh network, a fancy GUI, or a Squeak environment.

It is a meaningful distinction to make because it will ultimately shape your budget and your ability to actually distribute devices in meaningful quantities to the device's intended users.

Eh.

I'm all for designing things right, but I think it's not important to get caught up in the naming.

Display. Storage. Battery. Some way to charge it when you're nowhere near reliable electricity. Maybe a keyboard. Maybe the ability to communicate with other ones in a mesh. Maybe they can hook up to the internet if it's available.

And then lots and lots of great content pre-loaded.

For instance, ka-lite, the downloadable Khan Academy:

"The 4781 videos that are available currently have a size of 57.1 Gigabyte."

That's really not that big, any more.

I was unaware of ka lite, but this looks like exactly something I was looking for. Thanks for the information!

A super rugged ereader, waterproof with solar panels on the back and pre-loaded with Wikipedia and other useful educational resources.

I'd find that useful. I'm sure people/kids in developing countries would too.

that would be nice.

> do you need a laptop for that or an eReader?

An ereader already contains all of the hardware to be an interactive computer (especially if it has a keyboard, like the kindle 1, 2 and 3). It really shouldn't cost any more to deploy an Alan Kay-style dynabook than to deploy ereader appliances.

> the idea of a general purpose computer you could also teach kids to code on seemed really really cool

The idea wasn't that you could teach programming with the aid of the computers. The idea was that you could teach everything with the aid of computers.

Is the Kindle profitable on its own? I thought it was sold at cost or at a loss with the expectation it would lead to more profitable ebook sales.

Amazon's kindle ereaders are sold with a thin profit. (I don't think that the average kindle owner purchases enough books that they generate significant revenue after IP costs are subtracted.)

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyclay/2012/10/12/amazon-con...

[1] https://www.npr.org/2012/09/06/160697501/new-amazon-kindle-w...

"So... do you need a laptop for that or an eReader?"

Strangely enough the first kindle e-reader was released the same month as the XO laptop:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle

E-readers would be good if they were robust enough. All the trials using ereaders so far have shown that current devices aren't nearly robust enough, nor repairable enough, to be useful.

E-readers also suck for figures and formulas which are indispensable for any comprehensive education. The most readable textbooks can only be rendered on a big high-res display, on iPad at least.

Cheap 10" tablets are definitely easier to make than cheap 10" E-readers, though.

> So... do you need a laptop for that or an eReader?

Interactive learning is critical, and I'm some cases superior to passive learning. An interactive device can become passive, but not so much the contrary.

> but until we know how to properly introduce computers into the classroom as a general purpose educational device

1. We can only know how they can be used in the third world by giving them to the third world. Any lessons learned with first world children are not obviously transferrable. This is a big problem with a lot of research in psych.

2. You're assuming the third world kids getting these, or who would most benefit, are already learning in a classroom. I see no reason to accept that assumption. Seems to me, the ones who benefit even more are those who have little to no access to consistent education, so your objection does not apply.

> The cheapest way to give 100 books to someone in the third world is to give them a laptop (and a way to power it.)

I doubt it. Have a look at these prices[0]. The most expensive books do not exceed ₹150. A 100 of those costs ₹15000. $100 = ₹6500. Plus add the power source. You get very close to ₹15000. And as we saw, $100 was nowhere near enough to make a good usable laptop/educational device. So you need to spend more. And that is when compared to Amazon! Buying books wholesale (or printing them) will be even cheaper.

[0] https://www.amazon.in/Books-NCERT/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A97...

Have you ever tried to ship 100 books? Last time I tried to ship 2 cookbooks across the US it was nearly $30 for just shipping. I would much rather ship a laptop and a power solution.

Not to mention the storage and care of 100 books in less-than-ideal housing where moisture and rodents are very real problems. Plus the actual volume of 100 some books.

Compared to a laptop, that can sit in your bag, and also serve as a light source.

It doesn't need to be a good laptop, it just has to be a laptop. There were still french farmers using text only BBS like terminals a decade ago, quite happily.

I'm not sure either comparison is easy to make. With 100 books, you can provide for 100 people at once. A laptop can't do that. And in 20 years, how many of those books will continue to be providing information compared to the laptop?

I think both situations have unique benefits and drawbacks, and ranking which of those are worth more than others is something we don't yet have an objective measure for. As such, the comparison still seems quite subjective, even if we can give concrete numbers to a lot of the comparisons. The answer to which is best might even be situational.

You wouldn't ship the books, you would buy them locally. Most developing countries have local manufacture of books, or at least small scale traders who will import the books and resell locally. This would also boost the local economy a bit.

For reference, I buy my niece some nice books for $1 each. These last the who year and are available everywhere.

Media mail? Were they 25 pounds each?

Media mail is subsidized.

source?

Source: Have ever shipped something via the USPS.

Or https://www.usps.com/ship/mail-shipping-services.htm

Have you clicked the link in my comment? Delivery of books is cheap in third world countries. OLPC was not targeting American students!

Also, you don't buy 100 books at once. A year in school will need about 10 books. Send the next 10 next year.

My local library and schools constantly emphasize that reading your kid 1000 books before they are 5 is a key to success. (I suspect they are mistaking correlation for causation, but I have never checked)

You are right that the $100 robust laptop didn't exist and still doesn't.

But I believe that _that_ is « The real reason why OLPC failed », not that it would have been a bad idea if it were possible.

Dude you are reading that comment a bit to literally. Internet can easily supply one with information equivalent to hundreds or thousands of books. Paper can obviously not match that.

Not to mention that, even without internet, the OLPC XO-1 ships with bunches of stuff already on it.

Here's a directory dump from one of mine: https://alexvh.me/share/olpc-library-listing.txt