News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
[dead]
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by ggm on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:14PM (#16834732)
GDPR is not about stopping the spread of free information. its about personal data. You are completely mis-characterising the nature of the GDPR legislation.

Regulators are not enemies. Regulators are the enemies of established companies, and operate in favour of civil society as civil servants: they are subject to oversight, and are imposed to create oversight over entities who are not equilibriating in favour of wider society. They are anti monopolist.

Your response is really strange in this regard. Freedom of information is not an absolute. You have a right to privacy as an individual. If you hold certain digital assets like domain names, you are losing some of that privacy to have a WHOIS record, and GDPR is restoring some of it. If you browse web pages and entities hold onto your cookies and create value by integrating over sets of cookies at different websites GDPR is returning to you, the individual, some control over that.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by jccooper on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:37PM (#16834861)
That sort of democratic heroism is far from certain. "Regulators" and legislation are just as likely (or perhaps more) to be captured by and/or favor large incumbents as to combat them. By its very nature regulation favors established companies, who can afford better to pay for the burden.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by civilitty on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:38PM (#16838759)
And yet, the result of our regulatory system has been net positive to an extreme degree - you argument is trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. The very nature of political development in the western world has, for the last few centuries, been as much about how to put the "right" people and systems in positions of power. Let's continue to focus on that instead of giving up.

To use an analogy: if you love to travel the world but keep getting sick from preventable infectious diseases, the solution is to buy bottled water, mosquito repellent, and vaccinations, not stop traveling all together.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by briandear on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:22PM (#16835280)
> operate in favour of civil society as civil servants: they are subject to oversight..

Subject to oversight? Have you EVER heard of a French civil servant being fired? It's as rare as a baseball game in Paris.

[dead]
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by TeMPOraL on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:42AM (#16835906)
> You must have a really short memory to say that "regulators are not enemies". Just look at any history book, tell me what you find.

A bumpy ride from early agriculture, where people died of sickness and war all the time, to the relatively stable modern era of great wonders we all take for granted - hot water, long-lasting food of greater variety than even kings had just a hundred years ago, of powerful medicine and safe surgeries, of wash machines and air travel and the Internet.

All of that built on accumulation of knowledge and stabilization of societies, in which regulators always played a crucial role.

The history books do not paint the picture that "regulators are enemies". You just have to focus less on kings and wars, and more on how a society looked and lived in any given era, and why.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by disconnected on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:57PM (#16835203)
> Instead now I need to write a stupid page where I say "[MY NAME] will manage your data this and this way".

Are you referring to the Data Protection Officer (DPO) requirement?

I believe this is the relevant article: https://gdpr-info.eu/art-37-gdpr/

If I understand correctly, you only need to appoint a DPO in cases where you are either a public entity (you are not) or in cases where your site requires "regular and systematic monitoring of data subjects on a large scale", or in a couple of other special cases where you process extremely sensitive data.

Presumably you aren't doing that on "your" forum/webpage, so you don't need to appoint a DPO.

I think you are making a bit of a storm in a teacup here.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by nannePOPI on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:07PM (#16835229)
You need to reveal who is managing the data in any case, which is separate from the DPO.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by poizan42 on Saturday April 14, 2018 @07:19AM (#16836867)
Is it Article 13.1.a we are talking about here? It says

> the identity and the contact details of the controller and, where applicable, of the controller’s representative;

See, the main question here is which identity it is that must be disclosed. The definition in article 4.7 has this to say:

> ‘controller’ means the natural or legal person, public authority, agency or other body which, alone or jointly with others, determines the purposes and means of the processing of personal data; where the purposes and means of such processing are determined by Union or Member State law, the controller or the specific criteria for its nomination may be provided for by Union or Member State law;

What exactly falls under "other body" may be important here. What it does not say is that it must be a legal person.

Let us say that you have a forum on omgweirdfetishes.eu. You may say that the controller is The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum. Now it may be arguable that in itself counts as "other body", but generally there's the concept of "Unincorporated Association" which is just any group of people with a common purpose, it would be hard to argue that that doesn't fall under the "other body". In some countries, e.g. Denmark, an unincorporated association is even recognized as a legal entity in its own right.

So say that "The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum is driven by The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum Association. The members of the The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum Association consists of the users of The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum", and then identify the data controller as "The OMG Weird Fetishes Forum Association, contact details: [email protected]"

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by x0x0 on Saturday April 14, 2018 @02:03AM (#16836133)
If you are this afraid to tell your customers and/or users your name, they are right not to trust you.

ps -- if you want not to be required to disclose anything under the GDPR, don't collect any personal data. No ips, usernames, access logs, etc.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by TomMarius on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:51AM (#16836543)
How do you do that, purely technically? That opens you up to even most basic attacks.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by lagadu on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:11PM (#16835009)
That would require that you provide a service within the EU and that you store personal data, neither of which you do in your example.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by nannePOPI on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:25PM (#16835075)
if I have a forum I store the email of the users so they can recover the password. Same thing if I put up a simple newsletter to contact my users, I have their emails (newsletters may not be fashionable but they're much more effective than using a facebook page or other systems, since you own the email list of people who want to hear from you).

So, even in the boring world of small websites, you have to comply.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by afarrell on Saturday April 14, 2018 @08:14AM (#16837004)
> if I put up a simple newsletter to contact my users, I have their emails

Okay, so then the only requirement of GDPR is that you must make the newsletter opt-in rather than opt-out and you must make the unsubscribe process as easy as the subscribe process.

This is indeed a problem if you run Mailman, which has a somewhat annoying unsubscribe process and which does not have the funding[1] to address this.

[1] http://mailman.9.n7.nabble.com/GDPR-td46775.html

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by brazzledazzle on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:15PM (#16835254)
What I’ve read indicates that if you’re not targeting EU users (via ads or as customers), especially if you aren’t commercial, you don’t have to do anything. Is that not true?
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by dbasedweeb on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:04PM (#16834970)
This would only matter if you’re profiting from your fetish forum, which seems unlikely. Plus you’d need to have an EU presence, otherwise who cares and who would force you? There’s nothing stopping you from ignoring GDPR in the scenarios you describe. Being a small hobby forum pretty much let’s you pretend GDPR doesn’t exist, while being the likes or FaceBook makes it impossible to ignore.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by nannePOPI on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:08PM (#16834995)
The law is for everyone, it doesn't matter if I profit from it or how big I am, I still have to reveal who I am if I take data that is often needed, like emails in a forum.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by NegativeLatency on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:30PM (#16835103)
We’ll have to se how it plays out, but I suspect if you operate a small site outside of the EU you won’t be impacted.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by ryanwaggoner on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:45PM (#16835164)
Of course you won’t be impacted, but your protection is via selective enforcement. You won’t be in compliance with the law, but the government will lack the resources or determination to punish you. Until that changes.

This is fundamentally dangerous. Once we are all lawbreakers all the time, it creates a powerful tool for oppression and using the law to harass and silence political opponents.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by GW150914 on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:55PM (#16835192)
It’s not that slippery slopes don’t exist, but when the only argument against something is the supposed harm that it may lead to via a slippery slope, it’s suspicious and unconvincing. This thread is full of people saying that this is a step on the road to tyranny, and may end there, that’s true, but the arguments don’t seem to really support the claims.

If this really matters to you, and you care about doing more than signaling to others of your ideological persuasion, you need to offer more and better. Slippery slope is too often the lazy fallacy, and not a real case against something. How does this law as written and likely enforced do all of the bad things claimed here?

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by balfirevic on Friday April 13, 2018 @10:08PM (#16835435)
This is not a slippery slope argument. Situation where the only thing protecting you from unreasonable law is selective enforcement is already bad, no further sliding down the slope needed.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by dbasedweeb on Friday April 13, 2018 @11:04PM (#16835655)
Selective enforcement if you’re in the EU, otherwise who is enforcing it? For the billions of us not in the EU, these arguments are weak as hell.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by paxys on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:13AM (#16835819)
It is enforced no matter where in the world you are, as long as your site is accessible to EU citizens. And you will be surprised by how much jurisdiction European courts can have. A monetary judgement can be collected from any American company via UFMJRA, for example (http://www.uniformlaws.org/ActSummary.aspx?title=Foreign%20M...).
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by dbasedweeb on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:31AM (#16835873)
We’re not talking about a company, we’re talking about a fetish forum without a scrap of money changing hands. Who is enforcing GDPR there exactly? EU paratroopers? Not to mention that most people don’t live in the EU or America, so again, who’s enforcing this on our hypothetical non-business?

It’s really hardcore levels of bullshit being employed in this thread to make a big scary mountain out of a molehill.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by TomMarius on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:53AM (#16836548)
The EU could legally jail you the moment you step into its territory, and that includes flights that go through Europe, even without landing.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by dbasedweeb on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:16PM (#16839853)
That doesn’t sound even remotely correct given the nature of the “offense” in this case, for which the remedy is a fine. Can you cite this “jail the moment you step into its territory” thing?
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by TomMarius on Sunday April 15, 2018 @03:25AM (#16841694)
Jail is a place where you're put if there is a chance that you might try to run away from a trial and its resolution. I was in jail - and I did nothing, the case was immediately dropped.

Additionally, while the remedy for this crime is a fine, the remedy for not paying the fine is prison.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by mattsfrey on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:22PM (#16834783)
The cookie regs seem largely a moot effort given the pervasiveness of cookie usage, GDPR though I think is actually a generally good idea. The "nightmare scenario" that certain articles have detailed might be overburdening for companies, but in general having the right to be forgotten and know how your data is being distributed are large advancements in personal data rights.

This new reg to me is just bewildering however - not even allowing media sources to opt out of it? That just makes no sense to me and comes off as an attempt to destroy smaller / independent outlets. Hopefully it dies on the vine.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by destructaball on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:04PM (#16834973)
On something of a tangent I suspect that large parts of the GDPR will be comparably moot.

Many companies including Twillo and Delta have rolled out their tracking controls behind feature flags. If you decide that you'd rather not be tracked they make you stare at a spinner for ~100 seconds while your privacy settings are "being applied".

Keeping privacy as inconvenient as possible is big business.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by TeMPOraL on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:45AM (#16835918)
> Keeping privacy as inconvenient as possible is big business.

To some extent, this risks running afoul of GDPR and getting hit with a big fine. But no doubt companies will try to find the sweet spot of being as annoying as possible while still being technically compliant.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by Ygg2 on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:28AM (#16836747)
Let HHGTG be your guide.

"The information was on display on Alpha Centauri for at least 20 years".

I.e. if they make a GDPR request put them on the waiting line with rest of customers. Press 1 for account related matter, Press 2 for account information, please enter your account number. Please enter your account number to confirm. Press 3 for privacy related information. Press 4 for information regarding GDPR. Please enter account information. Please verify account number. Redirecting to customer support. Please press 9 to continue. Please press 2 for verifying you are EU citizen. Enter verification data.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by sykh on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:18PM (#16834752)
With this proposal they want to impede freedom of information while at the same time get some of that sweet tax money in the pockets of their allies.

This sounds plausible but do you have evidence that it is actually true?

An equally plausible reason for the proposed change is that European leaders see what media consolidation leads too. Too many people relying on too few sources for information. Perhaps this legislation is an ill thought out way to try to counteract the Facebook/Cambridge Analytica controversy.

Newspapers, and magazines are dying. They are no longer able to do the sort of investigative journalism like in the past. Consolidation has led to a degradation of quality and has caused too few people to control too much information. Witness the shenanigans of Sinclair Broadcasting recently.

I don't know the merits of the legislation in question but without evidence it's a hard sell to ascribe its passing to what you claim.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by nannePOPI on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:40PM (#16834881)
These kind of laws make it much more difficult to spread content and therefore they consolidate informations in few player, often loved by the governments and their puppeteers.

We used to be able to put a website online, gather emails to send newsletters, offer services to our users, etc without any help from the government. Now, every time I put a new website online I have to fill pages of pages with stupid policies and I know I'm not even fully compliant because honestly it's impossible to really be since it's all about how it's interpreted by the current bureaucrat. These kind of laws don't deserve a place in Europe.

You need people to be able to be naturally compliant, so that they can promote their stuff wihout being scared of persecution if they say something the government doesn't like. Today you don't make a website and say controversial stuff, otherwise you know that when the government will notice it will uses the broad interpretations that stupid laws like the cookie law or GPDR give them to drag you into court and destroy you. By government of course I mean bureaucrats, political figures and your bigger competitors.

These kind of laws, like the GDPR, where they say "we will use them for good, don't worry, we will ony use them on big companies" are those that freedom-minded people should be mostly scared about. Of course the proposal in OP is much worse and makes no sense.

Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by sykh on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:55PM (#16835193)
That may be a consequence of such laws but do you have evidence that this is the consequence that the people making this law want? What evidence do you have for the motivations for the people making this law.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by short_sells_poo on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:35AM (#16836340)
It's almost irrelevant whether the people proposing this law have good or bad intentions. The current establishment may mean well, but the road to hell us paved with good intentions. There is no guarantee that a regime in 30 years won't abuse these regulations.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by unilynx on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:03AM (#16836417)
What's stopping a regime to enact these regulations in 30 years, if it feels it needs them?

That argument works against things like data retention laws (the new regime may find 'new uses' for data already retained) but if anything, GDPR discourages data retention

[dead]
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by nannePOPI on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:42PM (#16834893)
My judgement is that US is also in a bad spot, but at least the first amendment give them a little more protection, and there is a much stronger stance on freedom of speech, and even more variety in opinions compared to Europe.
[dead]
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by swebs on Saturday April 14, 2018 @04:24AM (#16836468)
Is that an actual question, or are you trying to deflect the valid criticisms of globalism by slandering it's opponents?
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by henrikschroder on Sunday April 15, 2018 @01:04AM (#16841318)
It was an actual question. Sometimes people who use the word are genuinely interested in the debate. Most of the time though, it's just some idiot who is interested in blaming everything that's bad with the world on some nefarious Other.
Re:European Copyright Law Could Soon Get Worse by YouAreGreat on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:06AM (#16836273)
Did you mean to suss out dog whistlers or are you just trying to divert attention from globalists? #notyourshield