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Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by alkonaut on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:07AM (#16828492)
Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size.

One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of space in the car, if you want to fit more people in it. A rear facing seat for a 3yo behind the front passenger seat will make the front passenger space tiny in all but the largest cars.

If you look around europe you'll find that countries that traditionally use small cars (France, Italy, Britain) probably don't use rear facing seats as much. What part of this is cause and what is effect I don't know, but you won't find many families with small children driving compact cars in Sweden like you do in say the UK or Italy. I saw someone in the UK describe a golf as a "family hatchback" at one point. That person hadn't been in the front passenger seat of a Golf with a rear facing child seat behind (The front seat is then nearly touching the glove compartment).

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by landbeyond on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:41AM (#16828673)
It's "hard" if you make it. I worked as a cab driver (in Sweden) for a couple of years, and we offered free rear facing seats and boosters if kids were to ride. Actually, since it's the drivers responsibility, we didn't start the car unless all kids were strapped according to law.

Anyway. Kids would scream, fuss, battle, sometimes even while strapped in, and all the way until we arrived. Because they're kids. Some parents would try to soothe the kids, some would just ignore their fuss, and some would try to talk the driver/me out of using the seats.

The reasoning even among the parents that though "this is ridiculous, let me just hold the kid in my arms" was quite the same: We all knew that if something happened, the seats would likely be the difference of life and death for the kid. And thus, we just accepted that kids not wanting to be strapped is a part of life and had to be tolerated.

Not arguing against you here. I'm saying, yes, it's has difficulties, but the consequences of not using proper security is far worse.

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by lebski88 on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:29AM (#16828940)
> (France, Italy, Britain) probably don't use rear facing seats as much

In the UK rear facing is a legal requirement up to 15 months - I think that's being extended to older kids soon. We used rear facing until about 3.5 for our eldest. At that point we got her a new forward facing one and gave that one to our youngest.

Two child seats basically means no one can fit in the middle unless you have an extra wide car. Some of the compact but bigger cars seem to be incredibly popular with parents around here.

I can't say we ever had an argument about front versus rear facing - that was just the direction the seat was in. They didn't even know there was another option! I can see how it might be difficult if you tried to change a seat a kid was already used to though. That said, pretty much everyone here uses ISOFIX bases with the extension bars so maybe we do have more room (as per the article). I'd recommend them either was as being able to clip the seats in and out is fantastic if you have a sleeping baby.

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by alkonaut on Friday April 13, 2018 @10:24AM (#16830264)
> Two child seats basically means no one can fit in the middle unless you have an extra wide car

The middle I never even worried about, the problem I find is that they take so much space in the front/back direction of the car. I.e. if you put a rear facing seat in the front passenger seat, no adult can sit behind it, and if you put a rear facing seat behind the front passenger seat, then no adult can sit in the front passenger seat.

So for the first child, a compact was no problem. The read-facing seat takes the non-driver side of the car - front or back doesn't matter). One parent drives and the other sits behind the driver.

With TWO rear facing seats however, we found that not even a medium size car (A4, 9-3, C-class, 3-series...) would fit them in a way that also fits two adults - at least not in a way that works for long trips.

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by isostatic on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:06PM (#16831844)
We have a c3 picasso, with a rear facing seat on the passenger side for a 3 year old (with a block to deal with the floor storage problem). Plenty of room for the passenger.

We spent a few weeks in Aus/NZ and bought a couple of car seats there (cheaper than renting them), which was odd -- they were rear facing and belted, but had straps to go over the back of the passenger seat and connect to an anchor point in the boot (trunk).

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by gknoy on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:14PM (#16831915)
My kids did rear facing until they were about 5, and we have a car that, while not tiny, is relatively small (crossover hatchback). Yes, their legs were a little cramped, but the significant safety differences (in case of an accident) made it pretty compelling.

The rear-facing laws in California define the _minimums_ (weight, age, and I think also height?) for when you're _allowed_ to let your child face forward. Given the difference in fatality rates between the two, I was OK with going past the minimum time.

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by tboughen on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:31PM (#16832084)
I’m in the UK - We have a 2 year old and a 4.5 year old both in rear facing Swedish car seats. It was cramped in the front of my old Kia Ceed, so we replaced it with a Honda CRV, which is on the the large end of mid sized SUVs. We carted the car seats into several other cars until we found one we liked where the car seats fit. Andcdotally I have seen middle income parents almost exclusively go for SUV’s or MPVs rather than hatchbacks or estates.
Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by rightnow on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:14AM (#16828516)
Father of two twin kids at 3.5 years. Its not hard at all. They climb in themselves, and if u have a seat with adjustable iso-fix bars you get enough room for the front seats.
Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by Steltek on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:53PM (#16831723)
How do larger rear facing seats even fit in smaller European cars? Is your front passenger seat folded all the way down?

When we were last car shopping, we looked at small SUVs (CRV, Rav4, Forester) and a rear facing seat mounted "American-style" still intruded on the passenger seat. I can't imagine how you could shift the seat forwards in a sedan and make it work.

Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by mkempe on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:39PM (#16832150)
We bought our car seats from Volvo in Sweden because they are designed differently than what is available on the US market, in particular and as mentioned in the article there is a metal bar that rests on the ground to support the seat. It makes a huge difference in improving the angle of the seat and saving space for the sake of the front passenger seat (as well as improving accessibility to install the child, or let her climb in when she grows older/stronger). You can see that in the sled-test photos included in the article (US row vs Swedish row); you can also see that the Swedish car seats provide a much better side-envelope of protection for the children.
Re:Road safety tips from Sweden by alkonaut on Friday April 13, 2018 @06:57AM (#16828770)
It likely depends on the size of the child, the type of seat and the type of car (how much space you can leave begind the seat as the child grows longer). With my second I got a better seat that probably added another 10cm.