Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by josefx on Thursday April 12, 2018 @05:26PM
(#16825072)
> It's a geological amount of time to a real-time system, which anything related to controlling a car absolutely will be.
The logging service that writes it down isn't really critical to the operation of the car. Even the notification has a geological amount of time before it has to notify the driver when compared to many other systems that operate on a near self driving car. I wouldn't be surprised if less critical components shared a non realtime timeslot between the actual realtime tasks.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by noselasd on Thursday April 12, 2018 @05:54PM
(#16825238)
One would assume they know that this log information is critical to the operation of the whole company, and engineer the logging system with that in mind - otherwise they can hardly make any claims about what a car was or was not doing when issues like this crash occurred.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by dsabanin on Thursday April 12, 2018 @02:47PM
(#16823760)
I do understand that, and that may be the case, but I don't think it will surprise anyone if there's a piece of nodejs somewhere handling something it shouldn't have, because someone just needed to ship. We don't know the quality of their code base and hardware or of all the code bases and hardware modules provided to them by 3rd parties.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by sidlls on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:08PM
(#16823958)
I would be surprised if nodejs were anywhere near the real time, safety critical systems here. I'd also not buy a Tesla in that case.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by jaggederest on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:26PM
(#16824111)
I've seen so many pieces of safety-critical hardware BSOD at this point that I would not be at all surprised.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by radix07 on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:31PM
(#16824148)
I don't think you know what actual safety-critical hardware is if you are running Windows or even Linux on it...
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by andrewflnr on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:44PM
(#16824264)
Well, obviously the maker of said hardware doesn't know what safety critical hardware means, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by jaggederest on Thursday April 12, 2018 @05:17PM
(#16825022)
I've seen both IV pumps, ventilators, and MRI machines BSOD.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by azernik on Thursday April 12, 2018 @07:35PM
(#16825879)
Which almost always happens because someone messed up their C or machine code, not because of using nodejs.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by akira2501 on Thursday April 12, 2018 @09:00PM
(#16826294)
> Which almost always happens because someone messed up their C or machine code,
Or hardware failure, possibly injecting faults into the system. See Page 14: https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/ApolloLMRadarTND6849.pdf
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by sidlls on Thursday April 12, 2018 @07:42PM
(#16825917)
What does that have to do with nodejs?
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by guhidalg on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:10PM
(#16823972)
If there is node.js component anywhere near the controls of my car, someone needs to be taken out back and taught a lesson.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by avip on Thursday April 12, 2018 @03:20PM
(#16824060)
Dude, this ain't a webapp. It's a car, our lives are in her hands.
Re:Tesla Was Kicked Off Fatal Crash Probe by NTSB
by wyldfire on Thursday April 12, 2018 @04:18PM
(#16824566)
> It's a geological amount of time to a real-time system, which anything related to controlling a car absolutely will be.
s/will be/should be/ -- defects in design notwithstanding. Note that the latency involved with the sensing equipment (skin conductivity? pressure sensor?) could be large enough to be significant.
It's a geological amount of time to a real-time system, which anything related to controlling a car absolutely will be. "Multiple seconds of unpredictable latency are OK" is an attitude that doesn't get you far when interacting with the physical world, and that's why there is an entire discipline dedicated to dealing with it that has to use special chips (e.g. the ARM R series), special OSes (e.g. VxWorks), and special tools (special IDEs, oscilloscopes, special cameras) to rise to the occasion.
If they let a "latency doesn't matter" system near any of these data streams, that's the scandal.