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Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by smackay on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:09AM (#16819988)
Reading this I was shocked, shocked I tell you to learn that cookery courses for adults and healthy eating "challenges" were ineffective. Actually if you take the numbers at face value then perhaps the intervention made the problem worse - there was a comment yesterday about how short-bursts of extra activity actually made people less active outside their regular exercise times.

So the premise of the study seems to indicate that the problem is largely one of education - I guess that's why they dropped this onto the school system. Instead of playing with a few guinea-pigs on a small scale maybe it's time think to think about the big picture:

1. Get all the crap out of the food supply.

2. Put an end, permanently with threat of severe sanctions, to all the fear-mogering in the media that frightens parents into keeping their kids indoors.

3. Deal with small-scale, crime, bullying, availability of drugs, etc. etc. that keep kids inside in front of the games console or TV instead of getting outside.

4. Create spaces were kids can go outside.

5. Get away from schools being places where kids sit on their asses for 6+ hours a day. For example in today' physics lesson on electro-magnetism we are actually going to biuld a 50m maglev track. OK so this is a bit unrealistic but it would be a hell of a lot more fun and everybody would be a lot more active.

... etc. etc., rant, rant.

In other words, the solution to a complex problem which is poorly understood is probably a whole range of solutions to create an environment where obesity simply is not possible. But that would take a huge amount of money, a huge amount of political will, a lot of creative thinking and a general re-wiring of a large number of attitudes and expectations.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by Lewton on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:16AM (#16820053)
> there was a comment yesterday about how short-bursts of extra activity actually made people less active outside their regular exercise times

Made mice less active! Not people. It was a link to an article about a mouse study

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by nickpeterson on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:48AM (#16820290)
Honestly it wouldn't take a lot of changes, but it wouldn't work because the people who make the laws are those with money. And there are many people who profit from this problem.

Then the wealthy spend their money convincing the public that the government shouldn't have to guarantee reasonably priced medical care because it would tax the wealthy out of the money they gained from this system. This is a pattern that repeats across a lot of issues that affect the poor. Look at overdrafts on bank accounts, mandatory prison sentences, for profit prisons, drug laws...

If history has taught us anything, it's that the wealthy/powerful will continue this cycle until they're getting decapitated on the streets in a few decades, rather than make minimal changes now to head off the problem, no pun intended.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by cies on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:15AM (#16820044)
> 1. Get all the crap out of the food supply.

Additional taxes may do, it helped for smoking. Slap the same tax on sugar, (processed) animal products, oils. And make a VAT exempt on whole plant foods. That combined with updated nutritional education will save millions.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by JoeAltmaier on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:18AM (#16820062)
Ooops - I had a different definition for 'crap'. Maybe we should instead use a scheme that lets people choose their own food, like a free market or something...
Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by chiefalchemist on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:31AM (#16820150)
I would say it's both. There are additives and such that are known to be unhealthy and should be eliminated. Making it easy to make cheap crap food by adding unhealthy elements needs to stop.

That said, I agree with you about choice. Creating a Nanny State only further disables the masses, and perpetuates the Nanny State. If you're always doing my homework, how am I going to learn to add?

Moi? Unless, there's a personal responsibility / accountability most people won't change. Not to get off topic, I do believe we (i.e., the USA) should have an accessible healthcare system. That's simply modern common decency. However, making misguided decisions (i.e., preventable diseases) affordable and acceptable is dangerous and expensive.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by adrianN on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:28AM (#16820134)
That doesn't sound like an effective way to combat the obesity crisis.
Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by JoeAltmaier on Thursday April 12, 2018 @08:36AM (#16820209)
Its consistent with American values (personal freedom etc). So often the idealist jumps straight to "Lets make people do it my way, uh, the right way! With restrictive intrusive laws! Or raids! Or some other totalitarian tool! Because that'll work!"

I understand its hard to see folks making choices that diverge from my personal sense of what's optimal. But it is a cost of living in a free society.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by cies on Thursday April 12, 2018 @09:09AM (#16820501)
You're making up stawmans, nobody's talking about that. Just some extra taxation like with cigarettes.

We're discussing ideas on how to get a hold on the obesity crisis. I suggested some extra taxes. Yes some gov't regulation.

You suggested me to use the free market, but food is already on the free market. So I fail to understand what you are actually suggesting.

At the same time you say "get rid of the crap", while not defining how to do so (without gov't regulation accordin to your own preferences) and without defining what in your eyes crap then means...

Please make a real argument.

And why should any solution be "consistent with American values"; obesity in the US is VERY CONSISTENT with American values. Maybe to turn the tide on it we have to look in a diff direction.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by JoeAltmaier on Thursday April 12, 2018 @09:48AM (#16820842)
To make it clear: what people eat and how they exercise is a very personal matter. Social engineering is intrusive and objectionable. When done with a shakedown its particularly intrusive.

I'm sensitive to this topic. Live in a University town. Periodically some idealistic students petition the City Council for some totalitarian ban as part of a social engineering agenda. The latest was, Permit only Organic Coffee to be sold in the city limits.

This clueless banning/taxing/penalizing folks for living as they please is inconsistent with American values. More typical of nanny states and other less savory government styles.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by cies on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:34AM (#16821999)
> This clueless banning/taxing/penalizing folks for living as they please is inconsistent with American values. More typical of nanny states and other less savory government styles.

Bollocks. Read your law books. Weed is only recently legal in some states. Ciggies are taxed heavily, so is petrol. Try walking butt naked in the streets.

My point: your values are arbitrary. And calling them American(TM) does not give them any credibility in my eyes. In fact what you are doing is similar to what you despise in others: setting some standard and calling it "universal" (ok US-niversal)

> To make it clear: what people eat and how they exercise is a very personal matter.

Except:

When there is a public healthcare system that takes care of you fuck up.

When advertising is everywhere shoving "eat unhealthy crap" messages into our collective sub-conscience.

When some sentient being needs to suffer/die/have-children-taken-away-at-birth/is-forcefully-impregnated-(also-called-rape)...

What I'm saying is that I see cases around me of diet not being a strictly personal choice. I think if you try hard you can see it too. It's not so black-white as you make yourself believe.

Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by JoeAltmaier on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:58AM (#16822236)
Food is different. Very different. Blurring that with strawmen is easy but not helpful.
Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by cies on Thursday April 12, 2018 @09:02AM (#16820430)
Not against free-market, just in favour of slapping some extra taxes here'n'there. Just like cigarettes. Would you like ciggies to be traded for normal value? Please no, we made so much progress...
Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by JoeAltmaier on Thursday April 12, 2018 @09:50AM (#16820859)
Such things are to be kept to a minimum. Whiskey/cigarette taxes were initially to fund the early US government in time of need. But that precedent has been used to justify any social engineering stunt somebody comes up with for decades.
Re:A school-based obesity prevention programme was ineffective by cies on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:36AM (#16822031)
> Such things are to be kept to a minimum.

So you agree it is there? Are you against them taxes now then?

Don't act like the US is some an-cap utopia or something, it full of tariffs, permits, taxes, privileges, etc., pretty much like any western country. Slapping a heavy tax on unhealthy foods is not making a huge diff in that picture.