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Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @12:38PM (#16802737)
They probably can (and I guess rather easily) test whether the touchscreen is or not from Apple and at least let the ungood ones work as before (I am sure this is pretty easy to do: just keep the old controller), issuing a warning (not that Apple is short on these) to the user: "your screen may malfunction or may be insecure. If you had it repaired outside the Apple network, we remind you that it is not covered by our guarantee".

I am pretty sure this is easy, cheap and honest.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by axoltl on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @03:39PM (#16804503)
It's neither easy nor cheap. The engineer in question now has to support multiple variants of the driver, and QA has to acquire several of these screens and maintain a dedicated test rack of them.

I'm a little amazed by how many people in this thread don't understand how much work developing for, testing, and maintaining actual physical devices is.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by ASalazarMX on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @04:47PM (#16805199)
> The engineer in question now has to support multiple variants of the driver, and QA has to acquire several of these screens and maintain a dedicated test rack of them.

Conversely, the update just needs to reliably detect if the screen is Apple brand, and abort the update if it's not. If this can be done, then the current driver could be considered generic and working everywhere, and the engineer would just need to maintain the generic and the current version.

That is, if Apple didn't mind to pay for making easier for third parties to get sales instead of Apple. Somehow I don't think that's the case.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by axoltl on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @02:02PM (#16813726)
The update is an all-or-nothing type of deal though. You either update the entire system or you don't. So now people with a third-party screen don't get new features and - more importantly - they don't get security fixes.

If the update wasn't all-or-nothing, now you have to test interoperability between this generic driver and the rest of the system. That might be OK if it was just this one driver, but what if you suddenly have a generic driver for N subsystems? The combinatorics explode quite quickly.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by ASalazarMX on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @08:26PM (#16817038)
Even if it's all-or-nothing and no generic drivers are implemented, it's better to deny new features than to cripple a working device. Apple defines the third-party market with how much documentation it releases. This is not a technical or practical problem, it's Apple not easing its iron grip, as it always does.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by axoltl on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @10:45PM (#16817590)
Would you mind pointing me to the implementation spec for the Pixel 2's touchscreen controller?
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by ASalazarMX on Thursday April 12, 2018 @12:32PM (#16822545)
Sure, Download the source from https://source.android.com/setup/build/downloading. The driver is in kernel/drivers/input/touchscreen.

Unless the Pixel 2's touchscreen is so weird that it needs a new driver, this will work for everyone.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by axoltl on Thursday April 12, 2018 @12:53PM (#16822740)
I looked at it, but that doesn't actually tell me the touchscreen interface. It just tells me the bits they're currently using. If Apple had open sourced their driver it wouldn't have made a difference, as whatever they're doing differently wouldn't have been in it until now. In order for me to make a fully compatible touchscreen, I need the datasheet and programming manual for the touchscreen controller.

As much as open source is a thing for software, it is not for hardware and especially silicon.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by ASalazarMX on Thursday April 12, 2018 @04:44PM (#16824777)
> I looked at it, but that doesn't actually tell me the touchscreen interface. It just tells me the bits they're currently using.

I have to agree with you on this. This is not a full hardware specification, it just tells how the hardware should behave up until the driver was released.

Modern open source hardware is still far in the future.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by axoltl on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:55PM (#16831747)
Open source hardware's still far in the future, and I'm actively worried about open silicon. The RISC-V foundation is making steps in the right direction, but it'll be a long time coming before I have a document that isn't under several layers of NDA telling me how to configure the memory controller on the latest Snapdragon.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @01:00AM (#16808184)
You have a working device and then you modify the software and it stops working.

If it works, why change it?

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @12:43PM (#16802776)
Here's a great article that discusses why doing this would be a bad idea: https://blog.darkrainfall.org/2016/02/a-short-rant-about-err...
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @12:53PM (#16802856)
Well, that is an opinion. However, bricking a device without previous warning seems quite out of control. There are many easier things to do. Like, for example, nagging the user every day with a message, not upgrading the software (and still nagging the user with a message), etc...

Bricking a device is certainly a bad user experience and not at all what the user wishes. Nagging him at least lets him use the phone and keeps him informed.

You cannot assume the user is stupid and not assume the user will not repair the phone outside your network. You cannot have both things at the same time and get away with it.

That is what I think. If the user is stupid, let him be so.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:02PM (#16802929)
> not upgrading the software

For goodness sake no! Blocking software updates is a terrible thing to do, because most people don't want to install them anyways. You're basically putting people in an already bad situation in a worse situation.

> Nagging him at least lets him use the phone and keeps him informed.

It only takes the user using the sketchy Touch ID sensor once for their fingerprint to be sent out to malicious actors.

> If the user is stupid, let him be so.

That's what you think, but that's not how Apple works. It's their job to make the default work well for those who may not be completely knowledgable about security.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:07PM (#16802981)
I get what you are trying to convey. I disagree but there is no problem in that.

However: where does Apple state that their products may stop working if repaired with different components? (Honest question, I have tried to find it).

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:24PM (#16803161)
This was that best I could find from a few minutes of searching.

> Service Exclusions and Diagnostic Fee. Apple may charge you a diagnostic fee (including shipping charges) as described in the Country Variation table, below (“Diagnostic Fee”), if Apple inspects your product and determines that (i) your product does not require service, (ii) your product has failed due to or has incompatibilities with software or data residing or recorded on your product (iii) service is required due to the failure of parts that are neither supplied by Apple nor Apple-branded, (iii) additional labor or parts are required that were not specified in the original estimated charges and you do not agree to authorize service based on Apple’s revised estimated charges, or (iv) service cannot be performed because the serial number has been altered, defaced or removed or the product has failed due to accident, abuse, liquid spill or submersion, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes (“Service Exclusions”). Apple will return your product to you without servicing it and may charge you the Diagnostic Fee.

This is from Apple's Repair Terms and Conditions: https://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/terms/repair/gener.... It doesn't say that the product will stop working, but it does say that Apple isn't responsible for fixing it if it goes wrong. I'm not sure if that could be extended to them not having to support your third party component in software, though.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:32PM (#16803221)
Thanks.

You see it is really not very noticeable and the writing says nothing about hardware stopping working.

I guess we have both learnt from this exchange.

Thanks a lot.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by Terretta on Wednesday April 11, 2018 @07:55AM (#16810198)
> the product has failed due to ... faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider

That sounds like it could be not working, with root cause as bad repair.

Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by greglindahl on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @02:58PM (#16804069)
Did Joe's Fly By Night iPhone Non-Genuine Replacement Parts disclose that their replacement part wasn't the same as Apple's? Seems like that's where the onus lies.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @04:10PM (#16804833)
Apple has a program for third-party stores that use genuine parts, the Apple Authorized Service Provider program. If the repair shop you go to isn't an AASP, then you can't say they have genuine parts.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by opencl on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @12:53PM (#16802852)
Except this particular issue has absolutely nothing to do with TouchID or security at all. It's just the screen. Error 53 was significantly more justifiable.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:03PM (#16802946)
I do realize the difference here; it's just that the parent brought up security, so I assumed that they were bringing up the case from two years ago.
Re:iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-... by pfortuny on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:08PM (#16802988)
Well, security was just a small part of my comment, anyway: you replied as if it were the main issue.