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Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by kaolti on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:31PM (#16774537)
One thing is sure, if you're hanging on to the past you'll always lose in the end.

That's not to say blockchain is the be all and end all, but constantly hunting for arguments why something will never work , is not only terribly boring, but IMO the most counterproductive way to look at anything.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by bwoodring on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:23PM (#16775119)
That's pithy, but there's no particular reason to believe it is true. You may find futurism amusing, but the future is not guaranteed to be better unless we make good decisions. The fact that something is futuristic does not make it inherently better, and believing that is does is just the mirror version of traditionalism.

There is ample evidence that stable, predictable institutions are the main driver of improved quality of life in the west. The libertarian instinct to tear down these institutions instead of putting in the hard work to make sure they are well run is counterproductive.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by mr_spothawk on Friday April 06, 2018 @02:18PM (#16775821)
> The libertarian instinct to tear down these institutions...

... is predicated on the long-carried memory of institutions like these failing under the duress of locked-in, privileged, out-of-touch bad-decision makers in positions of power fucking it up for the rest of us.

> instead of putting in the hard work

in my view, "hard work" is the work of building fair, equal-access solutions in an open space, instead of building more walls to facilitate Government Guidance of systems that governments have historically mismanaged.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by toomuchtodo on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:51PM (#16774747)
> That's not to say blockchain is the be all and end all, but constantly hunting for arguments why something will never work , is not only terribly boring, but IMO the most counterproductive way to look at anything.

I don't believe this is the same as discrediting solutions looking for problems. Blockchain proponents desire a technical fix to people problems. That is untenable, as people will always override software, whether that's through a courtroom, a government/regulatory body, or a fork based on majority consensus.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by moccachino on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:57PM (#16774818)
Ah, but that is only temporary. The ultimate technical fix to people problems will eventually prevail, making you all obsolete. Erm, I mean us all, us humans, all of us human people of which I totally am one.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by zodiac on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:17PM (#16775057)
> That is untenable, as people will always override software, whether that's through a courtroom, a government/regulatory body, or a fork based on majority consensus.

I would say every single non-naive person in this space realises this, so it's not true that blockchain proponents "desire a technical fix to social problems" in that sense. What smart contracts for eg could be good for is to leverage social consensus much more highly, rather than replace it (since like you said replacement is impossible)

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by cortesoft on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:11PM (#16774984)
This is a clear example of survivor bias; there have been plenty of things that people thought were the future that turned out to be false, and the people who ‘hung on to the past’ and didn’t adopt those things won out in the end.

Betamax, 3D TVs, laserdiscs, segways, new coke, etc.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by wolco on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:28PM (#16775194)
Many of those items changed forms and exist today. If this was 10 years ago you can add 3d printing or solar panels. Some technologies take time to develop.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by slededit on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:22PM (#16775116)
Cryptocoins appear to have drastically more adoption than any of those.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by bwoodring on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:57PM (#16775551)
Don't kid yourself, the number of people who own cryptocurrency is vanishingly small, and the number of people who own cryptocurrency for any other reason than a get-rich-quick scheme is microscopic.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by kaistinchcombe on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:26PM (#16775167)
Depends on how you define "adoption" doesn't it?
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by tCfD on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:31PM (#16775225)
Their adoption comes as a consequence of their temporarily uncensorable ability to facilitate open speculation and gambling, so the adoption curve is merely following the well worn grooves laid by ancient vices.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by coldtea on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:25PM (#16775154)
Pet rocks did too at one time...
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by bhouston on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:46PM (#16774698)
> One thing is sure, if you're hanging on to the past you'll always lose in the end.

That does not seem to be a truism on the face of it. Some things change and some things stay the same. New or old is not clearly a winner, the world is more complex than that.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by gethesmane on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:48PM (#16774720)
That does not seem to be a truism on the face of it.

Agreed. It's actually quite empty, on the face of it.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by ChristianGeek on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:20PM (#16775079)
If you don’t at least have a grip on the past, you’re destined to repeat its mistakes.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by lornemalvo on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:51PM (#16774752)
What is your argument? All you are doing is starting an ad hominem attack against the author hy trying to position him as a defender of the pasr.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by Flozzin on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:57PM (#16774821)
Yes. We saw the same thing with 3D tv's. People tried to cling to their old 2D sets and clearly the new technology won out. /sarcasm
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by spookthesunset on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:57PM (#16775552)
We just bought a new TV and it was rather amusing that not a single model advertised it being "3D". Not on the box, not in the software. Nowhere. I'm not even sure the new 4K TV we bought supports 3D....

Last TV we bought years ago.... everything was 3D this, 3D that...

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by sp527 on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:53PM (#16774771)
That's easy to say if you have nothing to lose. Most people investing (time and/or money) in crypto have a lot to lose.

What you're saying is also just plainly logically unsound. If we tried to explore every possibility, irrespective of its potential, humanity would be nowhere. "Hunting for arguments why something will never work" is one of the finest anti-insanity protocols we have at our disposal.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by wglb on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:56PM (#16774814)
So what real-world problem does it solve? For example, can you address point 8 of this stream? https://twitter.com/timbray/status/963115533825527808
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by coldtea on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:24PM (#16775139)
>One thing is sure, if you're hanging on to the past you'll always lose in the end.

Well, people chasing after the latest fad lose much faster...

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by jcranmer on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:36PM (#16775285)
Even if that statement is true, that does not imply that the inverse is true--just because you're not hanging onto the past doesn't mean you won't always lose in the end.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by danmaz74 on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:02PM (#16774892)
> if you're hanging on to the past you'll always lose in the end

"In the end" isn't necessarily interesting. In the end, we're all dead anyway :)

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by asfgionio on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:04PM (#16774918)
I'm not protecting the status quo. I just want breathable air. Cryptocurrencies are an environmental disaster. We should go out of our way to destroy them.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by maneesh on Friday April 06, 2018 @12:46PM (#16774696)
Thank you for saying this. I always try to find the words but you said it eloquently.
Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by Florin_Andrei on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:31PM (#16775228)
Money will continue on the path of virtualization and unversalization.

It was cows and jugs of honey at first. Then it was seashells. Then it was gold. Then it was printed paper. Then it was records in a database, but living isolated as local records.

It will become even more abstract and even more open, eventually. Whether that's the blockchain or something else, remains to be seen.

Re:Systems built on trust, norms, and institutions function ... by bwoodring on Friday April 06, 2018 @01:57PM (#16775564)
Putting money on a blockchain is not inherently more abstract than keeping it in a bank's database.