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A comment on Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine. Parent comment

Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Mizza on Saturday March 31, 2018 @03:57PM (#16724872)
So because of events a thousand years ago the Israelis should be immune from criticism? Give me a break. Israel is an apartheid state and sensible people don't like that. And the right of "ancestral homeland" should be respected for Israelis, but not Europeans? etc.

In a rational society, any and all groups as valid targets for fair criticism. It doesn't mean that racists/reactionaries get a free pass, but it does mean that nobody gets special treatment.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Protostome on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:37PM (#16725053)
Please stop using the word apartheid, you're abusing the term.

Israel's actions are sometimes immoral and unjust (and to be fair, so are some of the steps the Palestinians occasionally take, especially Hamas) but it certainly is incredibly far from being apartheid.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Mizza on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:44PM (#16725082)
It's a widely used and accepted analogy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analo..., including by the former president of the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid
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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by eanzenberg on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:16PM (#16724963)
The point of Israel is no one wants the Jews. Europe doesn’t want them. Russia doesn’t want them. The middle east sure as shit doesn’t want them. The US tolerates them.

Let that sink in.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Mizza on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:21PM (#16724992)
"Let that sink in" isn't an argument, and it especially isn't an argument that justifies apartheid.

Nobody in Europe is saying Israel shouldn't exist, just that it should be held to modern western moral standards and accountability with regards to human rights.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by meri_dian on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:33PM (#16725035)
Maybe if you were surrounded by people who want to kill you and refuse to accept your legitimacy as a nation, and are subject to constant violence and harassment you would understand why the Israelis are a bit defensive.
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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by portofcall on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:27PM (#16725013)
By those modern standards, they’re already doing better than the US and UK for example. They didn’t invade Afghanistan and Iraq, they didn’t destabilize Libya, and they don’t have a secret program of drone killings all over the world.

Lose the apartheid nonsense too, you’re insulting the Israelis, and the South Africans who suffered under the real deal.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Mizza on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:49PM (#16725114)
"I know you are, but what I am I" doesn't excuse Israel for its crimes. The US isn't excused either - that's the whole point I'm making: no special treatment.

And yes, Israel does have a drone assassination program - that's where the US got the idea for theirs. The US Hunter and Pioneer UAV systems are direct derivatives of Israeli models, etc.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by portofcall on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:56PM (#16725136)
...just that it should be held to modern western moral standards and accountability with regards to human rights..

You remember posting that, right?

Israel does have a drone assassination program - that's where the US got the idea for theirs. The US Hunter and Pioneer UAV systems are direct derivatives of Israeli models, etc.

Citations for that?

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by Mizza on Saturday March 31, 2018 @05:03PM (#16725163)
The crimes of the US don't excuse the crimes of Israel. I don't know why that's so hard for some people to grasp.

Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_combat_aerial_vehicle...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killing#Use_by_Israel

https://www.army-technology.com/features/featureuav-evolutio...

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/31/582099085/journalist-details-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killings_by_Israel_De...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/books/review-rise-and-kil...

“Since World War II, Israel has assassinated more people than any other country in the Western world.”

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by meri_dian on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:07PM (#16724925)
No one is saying the Jews should get a free pass for anything they do.

Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression.

Israel is a far, far less "apartheid" nation than other middle eastern nations. So why does Israel get all the hate? Because of latent anti-Semitic beliefs in society, which is the point of my post.

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by nyolfen on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:13PM (#16724951)
>Just that Israel seems like a very small reparation to pay for centuries of oppression.

easy to say when it's not your family that loses their land and lives in an open-air prison

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Re:Antisemitism matters: Jews are the canary in the coalmine by eanzenberg on Saturday March 31, 2018 @04:17PM (#16724970)
Easy to picture when you compare land mass sizes.
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