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Re:Putting the I back in IDE by Const-me on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:07PM (#16704229)
I agree.

Another reasons why I prefer GUI are auto complete, tooltips and context menus. Also for some documents like xml, also when working with other people’s code, I find it useful to collapse/expand blocks of text.

All these features pretty much require a GUI-based editor.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by eadmund on Thursday March 29, 2018 @12:29AM (#16704500)
Those features are available in emacs, and work in both the GUI and the terminal.

For auto-complete, vanilla emacs has dynamic abbreviations; there are several packages for fancier auto-completion; company-mode, for example, works just fine in the terminal, as well of course as in the GUI (X11, macOS or Windows).

Likewise with tooltips, which in the terminal generally are generally displayed in a special region of the terminal instead.

Likewise with context menus, which can be shown just fine in a VT100 terminal.

Likewise with expanding & collapsing text ('folding'). Org-mode, to take just one example, is built on folding — and is easily one of modern emacs's killer features.

Seriously, give emacs a shot. Both Prelude & spacemacs are excellent configs for it.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by Const-me on Thursday March 29, 2018 @01:58AM (#16704823)
> give emacs a shot. Both Prelude & spacemacs are excellent configs for it.

Are there any advantages over Visual Studio + Visual Assist, for C++ or C# languages?

Because I see many disadvantages.

About text editor features, your workarounds have flaws compared to good GUI. For tooltips, that special region of the terminal is physically separate from the cursor. For folding, a separate, visually distinct indicators of what’s folded/unfolded help navigating the code faster.

Another text editor feature hard to do in text mode is spell checking for strings and comments. Color is already used for syntax highlighting, so wavy red underlines come handy.

But visual studio is more than an editor, it includes a build system, debuggers and profilers, package manager, and many more related features. Everything comes already integrated and just works out of the box.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by eadmund on Thursday March 29, 2018 @08:57AM (#16706582)
> Are there any advantages over Visual Studio + Visual Assist, for C++ or C# languages?

A fully-extensible, flexible environment which anyone (even a secretary!) can easily extend.

> About text editor features, your workarounds have flaws compared to good GUI.

They're not workarounds; they are the features. emacs has a GUI. I repeat: emacs has a GUI. Tooltips in a GUI display as you'd expect. Folding in a GUI displays as you'd expect.

> Another text editor feature hard to do in text mode is spell checking for strings and comments. Color is already used for syntax highlighting, so wavy red underlines come handy.

Terminals support underlines!

> But visual studio is more than an editor, it includes a build system, debuggers and profilers, package manager, and many more related features.

Have you ever used emacs? It's more than an editor; it connects to build systems like make, maven, gradle, ant, what-have-you. It has its own elisp debugger, connects to gdb, SLIME provides an integrated Common Lisp debugger &c. It has a profiler. It has a package manager. It has a best-of-breed git interface, Magit. It has a best-of-breed personal organiser, Org-mode. It has multiple email clients (rmail, vm, gnus & notmuch come to mind, but there are probably more). It has multiple web browsers (emacs-w3m, eww, w3 & a new experimental WebKit-based browser). It has multiple image viewers. It has multiple terminals & its own shell.

Emacs is far, far 'more than an editor.' It's probably the single editor which is the furthest from being just an editor. Don't trust me: give it a shot! It really is a wonderful experience.

And yes, it has a GUI. Images, scrollbars, menubar, toolbar: the works. Runs on X11, macOS & Windows. And it also runs perfectly well in a VT100 terminal. You can use the same emacs locally and remotely, over SSH. It's pretty awesome.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by Const-me on Thursday March 29, 2018 @09:23AM (#16706778)
> which anyone (even a secretary!) can easily extend

Even if that’s true, we’re talking about development environments here, so secretaries are irrelevant. I’ve been programming C++ and C# for decades, for me, visual studio is quite flexible and extensible.

> Terminals support underlines

I specifically told about wavy red underlines for spell checking, and terminals don’t support that. Simple underlines are too intrusive i.e. they often mask '_', and don’t stand out visually from normal text.

> It's more than an editor; it connects to build systems like make, maven, gradle, ant, what-have-you.

I know it’s possible to integrate everything in Linux ecosystem. I just don’t want to waste my time connecting, integrating, and then supporting the setup that just works out of the box on Windows, with freeware visual studio.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by icebraining on Thursday March 29, 2018 @02:55AM (#16705065)
Another text editor feature hard to do in text mode is spell checking for strings and comments. Color is already used for syntax highlighting, so wavy red underlines come handy.

No wavy red lines, but there's still two different types of coloring (letters vs cell background): https://i1.wp.com/www.tjansson.dk/wp-content/vim-spell-error...

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by confounded on Thursday March 29, 2018 @03:13AM (#16705145)
Emacs 25 GUI gives me wavy red lines (via Flyspell).
Re:Putting the I back in IDE by oblio on Thursday March 29, 2018 @02:30AM (#16704963)
Terminals do have rich text, I have to point that out. Not conhost, the default one on Windows (though I think the latest Windows update might have it).

So you can have underline, bold, italic, squiggles, I think even strikethrough. Also you can have tooltip "windows" but since they're harder to create and manage few applications use them. Those that do are generally based on ncurses, a library for TUI (think Norton Commander or Turbo Pascal)

Vim even has a spell checker built in.

What the terminal does not have is usually consistent support because terminal emulators are really shady, there's no actual standard (most just do what xterm does). For the TUI thing, there's also no real conventions plus I'm pretty sure both Vim and Emacs don't use ncurses and roll their own (see: lack of consistency).

You also need to cobble things together out of packages with varying degrees of quality and documentation, from long forgotten wikis and 90's pages belongings to ex post-docs.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by icebraining on Thursday March 29, 2018 @03:01AM (#16705090)
> tooltips

Tooltips work in the terminal, they're just text after all. See Vim + YouCompleteMe (which, as the name indicates, also provides auto-complete): https://camo.githubusercontent.com/1f3f922431d5363224b20e994...

> I find it useful to collapse/expand blocks of text

For that you don't even need plugins, folding has been a standard feature for many years

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by Lio on Thursday March 29, 2018 @03:59AM (#16705342)
There doesn't seem to be anything about those features that makes them require a GUI.

e.g. I'm using ZSH specifically for it's command line autocomplete stuff. Emacs has helm for context narrowing and really good support for context menus. Vim will let you collapse/expand blocks of text including in XML using a mouse in a terminal window.

For spelling errors Vim will give you an straight red underline in the terminal and squiggly underline in its "GUI" versions. I assume that Emacs is the same.

I'm not suggesting you leave VS by the way. I'm just saying that your GUI only examples aren't GUI only.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by yorwba on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:19PM (#16704270)
There are vim plugins for auto-completion and it supports code folding out of the box. I'm not sure what you use tooltips and context menus for, but that functionality is probably available via some : command.

But then most command-line editors are actually GUIs in the terminal with excellent keyboard support.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by Const-me on Thursday March 29, 2018 @12:14AM (#16704449)
> I'm not sure what you use tooltips

They show documentation (pulled from comments) for functions, classes and arguments.

> and context menus

For context-sensitive commands I use once per week or less often, so I don’t bother memorizing keyboard shortcuts for them.

> most command-line editors are actually GUIs in the terminal

Most developers don’t use command line editors. Here’s recent data from this year: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#development-e... As you see, 4 most popular editors are VS Code, Visual Studio, Notepad++ and Sublime Text, all of them are GUI applications. Only 26% developers use Vim, 4% Emacs.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by oblio on Thursday March 29, 2018 @02:41AM (#16705007)
Those stats are also probably skewed in favor of people actually bothering to fill their survey. Those are more likely to be active/proactive, which in my experience is correlated with tinkering with tools (ergo, using Vim or Emacs).
Re:Putting the I back in IDE by dmitriid on Thursday March 29, 2018 @03:37AM (#16705240)
> Those stats are also probably skewed in favor of people actually bothering to fill their survey. Those are more likely to be active/proactive, which in my experience is correlated with tinkering with tools (ergo, using Vim or Emacs).

and yet:

> Most developers don’t use command line editors. Here’s recent data from this year: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#development-e.... As you see, 4 most popular editors are VS Code, Visual Studio, Notepad++ and Sublime Text, all of them are GUI applications. Only 26% developers use Vim, 4% Emacs.

Re:Putting the I back in IDE by oblio on Thursday March 29, 2018 @05:57AM (#16705792)
My point that those stats are not necessarily representative of the general population in that CLI editors are used by even less people than listed there. In my personal experience maybe 1% of the developers I know use them as their primary editors. They maybe edit some stuff with them on remote Unix systems, if you can call i<change some stuff>:wq real editing :)
Re:Putting the I back in IDE by sid-kap on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:48PM (#16704371)
Spacemacs has excellent context menus. It was suprising how discoverable everything is!
Re:Putting the I back in IDE by milesrout on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:41PM (#16704350)
vim supports all of those things out of the box, both in GUI mode (gvim/MacVim) and terminal mode (vim).

Emacs supports all of those things out of the box as well.