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Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by kazinator on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:37PM (#16703120)
How about "contains genetic modifications that are strictly Copyright (C) Mother Nature". Seems like a good first approximation at a working definition.

So, "north side of the mountain" is non-GMO right off the bat.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:46PM (#16703178)
> How about "contains genetic modifications that are strictly Copyright (C) Mother Nature"

Plants have been patentable since 1930 [1]. In 1970, the Congress gave breeders "up to 25 years of exclusive control over new, distinct, uniform, and stable sexually reproduced or tuber propagated plant varieties" [2]. IP concerns and GMO are orthogonal issues, as non-GMO varieties have been patented.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Patent_Act_of_1930

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Variety_Protection_Act_o...

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by kazinator on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:51PM (#16703914)
> Congress

That's that gathering of political representatives from all corners of the planet, to make decisions for humanity.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by sanxiyn on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:44PM (#16703162)
This is a meaningless distinction. It's like saying two files with idential content and checksum are different because one file was written by Vim and the other by Emacs.
Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by roywiggins on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:50PM (#16703204)
The law can and does make this sort of distinction.

http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by chc on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:54PM (#16703230)
I don't see what IP law has to do with nutrition.
Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by roywiggins on Thursday March 29, 2018 @09:41AM (#16706935)
The law can, if it chooses, make a distinction between on the one hand a plant with a genome produced by non-GMO methods and on the other hand a plant with the same exact genome produced with GMO methods. The law regularly chooses to pay attention to things like this even though nature makes no distinction.
Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by chc on Thursday March 29, 2018 @12:03PM (#16708122)
Sure, but that doesn't have any affect on the safety of eating the plant, which was the topic here.
Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by manicdee on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:18PM (#16703398)
Everything, since the nutrition comes from things that are covered by IP law.
Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by tptacek on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:09PM (#16703341)
Nobody puts labels like this on products unless they (1) respond to a regulatory requirement or (2) convey something positive about the product. In both cases, the label implies there's something wrong with products containing genes that aren't "strictly Copyright (C) Mother Nature".

You may think the only issue the ethical problem of enforcing genetic IPR, but casual consumers do not give a shit about IPR ethics. They assume "genetically modified" is in approximately the same category as "contains toxic herbicides".

Ironically, the most commercially viable way to produce non-GMO crops are toxic herbicides.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by smsm42 on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:03PM (#16703668)
> strictly Copyright (C) Mother Nature

What would be the point of it? In both cases we're seeking genetic modifications. In one case, it is targeted and precise, in another - random and probabilistic, i.e. we don't know whether the modification we want (sweeter apple, nicer carrot, etc.) didn't also bring along something we don't. Or at least we don't without analyzing the genome and selecting only those with genome we want - in which case it's just a very convoluted way of producing GMO.

It's like typing code by throwing rock at the keyboard until they hit necessary character and calling it "natural Organic coding" - surely, you could do that, but what exactly is the point?

If you say "but those genetic modifications have been tested by centuries of time" - also not really, many cultivars we're eating today are relatively recent, late 19th to 20th century. E.g. Fuji apples one sees everywhere were introduced to US marked in 1980s. And for many cultivars, there was no serious studies about their safety. Of course, if people start dropping dead in place from eating certain kind of apple, it would be noticed. But otherwise - we have little data, and nobody is too worried about it.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by kazinator on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:46PM (#16703898)
> What would be the point of it?

Simply to try to define "GMO"; do you have a better idea?

Since everything is "modified", the definition is meaningless if M refers to all modification. To be useful, the definition probably has to carve some subset in the M space.

> It's like typing code by throwing rock at the keyboard until they hit necessary character and calling it "natural Organic coding"

That may be so, but I like being a human rather than some organic molecules on the surface of a rock from which I evolved by this ineffective, dangerous process.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by smsm42 on Thursday March 29, 2018 @01:03PM (#16708705)
> Simply to try to define "GMO"; do you have a better idea?

Yes. "GMO" is a scare term, devoid of any real content, used by tiny number of overly cautions ecologists and vast number of charlatans to trick gullible people into fearing modern technology.

> Since everything is "modified", the definition is meaningless if M refers to all modification

That's where you realize "GMO" is meaningless, and stop using that term.

> I like being a human rather than some organic molecules on the surface of a rock from which I evolved by this ineffective, dangerous process.

You are both. One does not contradict the other, and being made of organic molecules in no way diminishes your humanity. And being made of other organic molecules, some of which were purposedly put there to make it better (for varying definitions of "better") does not diminish the quality of your food. Which is not just declared by me, some guy on the internet typing some bullshit into the browser, but was actually verified by scientists.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by kazinator on Thursday March 29, 2018 @04:12PM (#16710628)
> That's where you realize "GMO" is meaningless, and stop using that term.

It's not meaningless at all. GMO could be used maliciously. A tomato could be produced which deliberately make a protein such that a fraction of a milligram can kills. That is not likely to happen with random evolution.

"GMO" is just as meaningful as "infected executable".

> You are both.

Completely besides the point; which wasn't about human versus molecules, but rather that random evolution did a pretty good job there.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by smsm42 on Friday March 30, 2018 @02:31AM (#16714157)
> GMO could be used maliciously.

Anything can be used maliciously.

> That is not likely to happen with random evolution.

That is happening all the time with evolution. Hundreds of types of plants produce poisons. In fact, producing various poisons is the plant's main weapon in the struggle for survivial - it has no claws and can not run, so it's either making itself completely indigestible (like trees) or making itself unfit or at least hard for eating. Like tomatoes, which were, like all nightshades (potatoes, tomatoes, etc.) originally highly toxic. Only we humans convinced tomatoes and potatoes not to kill us, by genetically modifying them since at least 500BC. Of course, we could develop ones that kill too. Or we could worry about grocers to just shooting you - if they'd be willing to kill you with tomatoes, why not with rifles? Of course, in reality nobody tries to kill anyone, so worrying about weaponized GMO is pointless - if you wanted to kill people, nobody would bother with GMO, there are much cheaper ways.

Re:Why I’m quitting GMO research by tedunangst on Thursday March 29, 2018 @10:09PM (#16713108)
> A tomato could be produced which deliberately make a protein such that a fraction of a milligram can kills. That is not likely to happen with random evolution.

That's a strange claim to make about a member of the nightshade family.