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Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:08PM (#16700198)
Honestly, this should never be allowed.

It’s archaeology-hostile. It pisses me off to no end when I am searching for information on reddit and come across people replying to deleted posts by some paranoid user who wishes comments were more ephemeral like Snapchat.

This is what the next dark age of mankind will be like, people from the future looking for historical information and finding nothing but deleted or decayed data.

Here’s a tip: if you don’t want something to be up for all time, don’t even bother posting it. Keep it to your self. There are a lot of damning things and incidents that could end people’s careers and reputations that I’ve never posted about because I do not want the permanent liability.

I feel like the art of staying anonymous has been lost on people. It’s not that hard.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by corin_ on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:38PM (#16700485)
Why not allow people to remove just the connection to their account but not the content itself?

We all make mistakes and say things we later regret, sure the content forms part of a bigger picture which should be preserved but shouldn’t we be allowed to tidy up our publicly available historic opinions if they don’t match who we are now?

I’m pretty careful in what I post on social media or on websites, but I’ve definitely said things in the past that I wish I hadn’t, both on and offline, and unless I were a person of significant public interest (such as a politician) I don’t think it’s important for those mistakes to be documented for eternity.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:43PM (#16700524)
No one is forced to create a connection between their real identity to their account. I don't know why people insist on doing it and then later wanting to undo it.

In fact, if you don't want your anonymous account tied to you anymore in any way, sell it off to someone else. I bought this account for $500.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by ufmace on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:16PM (#16702526)
Trouble is how many connections you might have created accidentally. If you combine all of someone's posts together, many people have revealed enough information in total to figure out their true identity. Especially if they have a unique, google-able username that they have used on several different sites on different subjects, and you combine everything they've said on every site.

Of course, there are ways to throw some dirt into those gears, like posting fake details or trading/selling accounts every now and then...

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by softawre on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:00PM (#16701894)
Why did you buy that account for 500$?

And are you saying that the previous owner of the account is the one who didn't want it tied to him anymore, so he sold it to you (and you are therefore providing an anonymizing service to him?).

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:17PM (#16703392)
Knew the owner in real life. I liked the name and didn’t want to start off with an empty account with no karma. It’s mutual anonymization.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by lhuser123 on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:24PM (#16703034)
Ok, I don’t understand. Why would you buy that account?
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:09PM (#16700807)
Honestly, this should never be allowed.

I wouldn't go that far, though I am generally sympathetic to your overarching argument.

I wouldn't go that far in part because I'm a woman and women seem to attract stalkers a lot more than men. I was a homemaker for a long time and had a very private life. Trying to figure out how to interact effectively in the public sphere has been a struggle for me.

Part of that is me. Part of that is other people. People react differently to a woman than to a man.

So, on the one hand, I needed to figure out what I was simply doing wrong. On the other hand, I needed to figure out how to effectively navigate a situation that can, at times, be actively hostile and dangerous, even if I am not doing anything wrong. Those two things confound each other and I don't know of any good sources of instruction.

This has helped make me very aware that sometimes people get into real trouble and need extraordinary measures to help extract them from the mess.

I think those extraordinary measures should be made available at times. But I also think it should not be the default solution.

I generally agree with you that there are other approaches that we need to be pursuing that are more nuanced and that try to balance different concerns. I think gutting the value of a forum so that people can remove all their content at will on a whim can readily go bad places. I am not crazy about it as a policy/law.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by spondyl on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:43PM (#16701157)
Oh, hey! I was gonna say, your writing style seems familiar for some reason but I knew you by your previous handle. Nice to see you're still around
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:40PM (#16702235)
Nice to see you're still around

Thanks.

I went through a lot of changes in a short period of time and basically rebooted my entire internet life for various reasons. Some people have noticed I changed handles here and some haven't. To try to clear up any remaining confusion, I recently noted in my other profile that I am now posting under this handle.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by throwaway4719 on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:00PM (#16701348)
> I think gutting the value of a forum so that people can remove all their content at will on a whim can readily go bad places.

Thankfully, there's a really easy solution that HN today will not consider/is not taking seriously enough: Just change the goddamn displayed username for each comment to "<deleted>" or whatever.

1) this kind of (seemingly; it's all a black box in reality though) naval-gazing-based decision making is exactly why the GDPR makes sense. We can't run our lives on the whims of a few random people.

2) Does YCombinator tell us all of this stuff when we sign up to HN? No. We have to find it out by ourselves. When we e-mail them to ask them to delete our contributions, since there's no delete button, they just say "sorry, we can't do that".

This kind of stuff is what the GDPR is good for.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:56PM (#16701850)
GDPR is one of the reasons I’m hoping for the collapse of the EU.

If a US company has no physical presence in Europe I see no reason why they should comply with their bullshit.

And under a Trump administration... good luck.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by jakeogh on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:25PM (#16703043)
I bet Poland and Hungry are next to leave. It's a sad, predictable situation, take away the people's ability to check their own government, it's almost a law of physics that next to go is free speech (now), and then... history repeats. The BREXIT vote shows they know, but it's to be seen if the British can turn this one around.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by throwaway4719 on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:19PM (#16702055)
That's the beauty of it all.

Do you really think YCombinator has no EU exposure? It's a multi-billion dollar company.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:20PM (#16702061)
Redacted so I can pointlessly make it a blog post without Google penalizing my blog like I am plagiarizing or something.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by severine on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:51PM (#16702339)
Please make this a blog post, you raise very interesting points.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:32PM (#16702640)
http://gistofthegemini.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-gdpr-potenti...

There's your requested blog post. It's been slightly edited from the original (plus a few paragraphs tacked on to the end of it), so you can enjoy reading it a second time to look for the small differences between the blog post and what you remember of the comment.

(I have fixed multiple typos in the past few minutes. If you refresh, it might stop being gibberish.)

[dead]
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:52PM (#16703216)
Hello HN poster with multiple handles and negative karma who keeps complaining about HNs unwillingness to comply with the GDPR, creating new accounts and cross referencing them yourself by self identifying that you are also these multiple other accounts.

FYI, the piece is not a rant.

Also FYI, I am talking about people like you. Your problem cannot be solved by the mods deleting your multiple cross referenced accounts that you complain you want deleted while continuing to make new handles and then voluntarily outing yourself each and every time. It just would create headaches for the mods while feeding your delusion that your behavior is not the issue and does not need to change.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by existencebox on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:22PM (#16700336)
I couldn't agree more. What's frustrating is that we seem to be getting the worst of both worlds too; privacy in the face of archeology and public memory, but complete lack thereof in the face of nation states and many companies. (yes yes "gdpr will solve this" that's another long and contentious discussion that I'm putting off for now.)

As et-al said in a sister comment, in "ye-olde-internet" pseudonyms and some degree of anonymity was de-facto. When the real-names policies first started coming out, there was real pushback. Nowadays I see much more sentiment towards having some central authorities to protect users, and it worries me as, among other things, a loss of agency and empowerment to protect onesself. (do not read this to say that there are spaces regulation isn't important; but pushing the line too far and normalizing a lack of awareness and ownership over your situation is a real risk if the pendulum swings too far)

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by shostack on Thursday March 29, 2018 @07:37PM (#16712248)
>"Here’s a tip: if you don’t want something to be up for all time, don’t even bother posting it. Keep it to your self. There are a lot of damning things and incidents that could end people’s careers and reputations that I’ve never posted about because I do not want the permanent liability."

Do you feel it is reasonable to ask this of adolescents who might disregard or circumvent measures their parents put in place (if they even have them)? They are not yet aware of what consequences this can have or the magnitude and seriousness of them. They are not mature enough to do so in many cases.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by novia on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:15PM (#16700880)
It’s archaeology-hostile. It pisses me off to no end when I am searching for information on reddit and come across people replying to deleted posts by some paranoid user who wishes comments were more ephemeral like Snapchat.

This is what the next dark age of mankind will be like, people from the future looking for historical information and finding nothing but deleted or decayed data

No. It absolutely should be allowed. Sites like the internet archive exist to preserve internet data.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by mstolpm on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:30PM (#16701033)
If the 'right to be forgotten' is enforceable worldwide, it will be enforceable regarding the internet archive as well.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:39PM (#16701119)
> No. It absolutely should be allowed. Sites like the internet archive exist to preserve internet data.

For now. But one day they'll come for those archives too.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by nvarsj on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:32PM (#16701048)
I think you’re being unsympathetic and overly dramatic. We’re all human and mistakes are inevitable. Some mistakes could cost a person’s livelihood or safety.
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by rwhitman on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:31PM (#16700411)
Isn't the entire history of communication archeology-hostile?
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:36PM (#16700453)
Yes, but the internet is not purely communication, it's also a store of knowledge. You can find a lot of good information from threads and discussions people have had in the past.

Also, even records of mundane communication people had throughout thousands of years in the past is of great value to archaeologists in learning about how people lived their lives and how different events affected them.

Since we live in a time where we have the privilege of rediscovering the past in greater detail than ever, we should have the introspection to be mindful of what we are leaving for our future as well.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by krapp on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:41PM (#16703542)
>Also, even records of mundane communication people had throughout thousands of years in the past is of great value to archaeologists in learning about how people lived their lives and how different events affected them.

Meanwhile, works by Archimedes, Homer and Shakespeare, as well as innumerable other cultural artifacts, have been lost to time. As well as the original tapes of the moon landings. The ancient Sumerians writing their tax records in cuneiform never intended to leave a record for the ages. We still probably wouldn't know how Egyptian hieroglyphics worked if not for one artifact that happened to have it printed alongside known languages - and we still have no clue about Linear A, and many other languages.

What gets left behind as an artifact of the ages tends to be determined by random chance, and beyond that, the cultivating desires of the wealthy. In other words, it almost certainly won't be you or I who decide the value or longevity of our work.

>Since we live in a time where we have the privilege of rediscovering the past in greater detail than ever, we should have the introspection to be mindful of what we are leaving for our future as well.

The web wasn't meant to provide a lasting store of knowledge. It is ephemeral and stateless by design. If you want people to think long term about the collective data archive of humanity, asking everyone to just never delete anything is not going to cut it.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by switch007 on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:47PM (#16700574)
> Yes, but the internet is not purely communication, it's also a store of knowledge.

Who owns the data?

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by patmcc on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:07PM (#16700783)
Sure, but if we have the technology to make it archeology-friendly it'd be very nice to future archaeologists.

Any current archaeologist would give an arm and a leg for a few good reddit/HN threads from ancient Rome.

Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by jellevdv on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:25PM (#16701581)
[deleted]
Re:Ask HN: Will HN allow account and comment deletions? by matte_black on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:49PM (#16701783)
Good point.