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Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by icebraining on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:18PM (#16689963)
One fear is that Uber's mistakes will endanger the whole self-driving industry, by making people afraid. I'd say these companies are trying to separate themselves to avoid that.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by reaperducer on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:14PM (#16690650)
I imagine we'll see self-driving car horror movies soon.

We've had them in the past (Christine, Trucks, Herbie the Love Bug), but the only thing Hollywood loves more than latching on to a trend (Emoji Movie) is blowing something out of proportion.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by reificator on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:17PM (#16690678)
Just last year that was an arc in Ash vs Evil Dead.

Granted it was self-driving thanks to a book inked in blood and bound with human flesh, but that's beside the point...

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by rasz on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:00AM (#16696404)
soon? havent you been watching new Xfiles?
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by ggg9990 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:20PM (#16690713)
Damn, I’m already imagining them like the climate change movies where a 800-foot tsunami hits Manhattan. 200 million self driving cars have become hostile and are trying to kill the humans. The problem is that they have commandeered a group of friendly-looking Japanese humanoid robots to pump gas for them. One rogue humanoid robot is the one who will save humanity along with help from a 6-year-old girl with pigtails and a stuffed rabbit named Hopsy.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by jsight on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:06PM (#16691142)
Who leaked our script? Ugh...
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by reificator on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:20PM (#16689986)
That doesn't make it the right time to publicly announce "we wouldn't have killed someone here, look how great we are".
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wjnc on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:25PM (#16690044)
Near my hometown a Tesla crashed and the crash killed the driver recently. Guess who gave a statement within days blaming the driver for speeding? For a European that was quite the novelty (and probably illegal, although AFAIK deceased lack privacy protection since not a natural person).
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by ggg9990 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:22PM (#16690726)
Musk definitely goes too far with his response to any criticism of Tesla. It makes him sound a little like Trump — “I’m so amazing”
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by thrownaway954 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:42PM (#16690259)
i know it will sound insensitive, but one person dying is not that big of a deal... heck 1000 people dying is only 10% of the amount of people that die each year for drunk driving[1] and you don't see liquor being pulled off the shelves.

however i do see how people (including me) are sheep and can be manipulated into believing anything. taxis and trucker unions can use this an opportunity to condemn self driving vehicles.

[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wpietri on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:49PM (#16690353)
That doesn't just sound insensitive.

Watching the video, I'm convinced that person died for no good reason beyond Uber rushing tech out the door before it was ready. An alert human would have braked and swerved in that circumstance.

People do die from drunk driving, and those drivers go to jail because they fucked up in a huge way. That's no reason to give Uber a dead-person mulligan. Indeed, it's a reason that some Uber exec should perhaps be wearing an orange jumpsuit over this.

I'm all for self-driving cars, as done right deaths will go down. But that means we shouldn't introduce them until they are well-made enough that deaths actually go down.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by Johnny555 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:42PM (#16690935)
Watching the video, I'm convinced that person died for no good reason beyond Uber rushing tech out the door before it was ready. An alert human would have braked and swerved in that circumstance.

It's likely that the accident still would have been fatal, or at least the pedestrian would have been seriously injured if the safety driver was driving. Based on the video there was only a second or two to react from the time the pedestrian stepped out of the shadows, and human reaction time varies from 0.7 to 3 seconds [1]. One study found the average driver's reaction time is 2.3 seconds.

[1] http://copradar.com/redlight/factors/index.html

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by jaclaz on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:37PM (#16691471)
>It's likely that the accident still would have been fatal, or at least the pedestrian would have been seriously injured if the safety driver was driving. Based on the video there was only a second or two to react from the time the pedestrian stepped out of the shadows, and human reaction time varies from 0.7 to 3 seconds [1]. One study found the average driver's reaction time is 2.3 seconds.

Yes, but it is difficult to state that it would have been "likely" fatal, and even sevral fractures are IMHO a big improvement over death, the whole point is not about the "average" braking time (BTW that same study gives 1.64 seconds average for "steering away" which is probably what most human drivers would have done in a similar situation, instead of braking or instead of only braking), it is the peaks that count.

I mean, it is about the (rightful) expectation that an automated system is safer (faster, more reactive) than the best you can find (not the average, the best) "in nature" among a random set of drivers, just like the state codes (correctly) take the worse case in the sample or however incereases the recommendation to three seconds.

If you play the game suggested on the same site you gave a link to and deliberately count up to three before clicking, you get:

Reaction time: 2916.00ms

Reaction speed age: 89 years old

Playing fairly, you are likely to get values in the range 300-500 ms.

Here is another paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233039156_Brake_Rea...

that puts it back to around 1-1.5 seconds or however maximum at 1.8 seconds in the very worst cases.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wpietri on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:05PM (#16692244)
The video camera doesn't have the same vision as a human. A human would have seen something sooner and so would have had more reaction time.

You also mis-cite your numbers. Reaction time to braking in that study was 2.2 seconds, but steering is 1.6 seconds, and beginning to slow is 1.0-1.3 s. Those numbers are also from a study environment; it's plausible to me that people would be more relaxed in a test than if they see a live human appear in front them.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by tintor on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:01PM (#16690491)
Should Uber Test Driver go to jail? She was on camera looking down at her phone at the moment of accident.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wpietri on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:55PM (#16692166)
I think expecting a backup driver to pay that kind of attention on a continuous basis is unrealistic on Uber's part.

Are you familiar with Threat Image Projection? It's a system where baggage scanning machines put in images of fake threats into real baggage. Why is this necessary? It's because regular baggage doesn't have enough in the way of actual threats to keep operators alert.

I think it's the same deal with being a backup driver for a robot car. Sure, they should be ready to take over when the car asks for help, and it's great if they notice a problem and stop the car. But I don't think expecting them to have this kind of reaction time is realistic.

(That may not stop Uber from throwing the backup driver under the bus, though.)

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by vinceguidry on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:13PM (#16690635)
She absolutely should, in my opinion.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by thrownaway954 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:21PM (#16691306)
then it negates that whole idea of having a "self-driving" vehicle. the whole point is to let the vehicle drive itself while you can do whatever-it-is you want without paying attention, like sleeping or playing on your phone... you essentially are a passenger, not a driver.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by vinceguidry on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:54PM (#16691641)
She wasn't in a self-driving car. She was testing a prototype self-driving car. She's absolutely culpable for her negligence. She had one job.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by always_good on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:54PM (#16690414)
Well, they were still jaywalking in the middle of the night hoping oncoming cars would stop for them.

It's not like the car hopped the curb.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by reaperducer on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:29PM (#16690794)
In many (all?) states, pedestrians have the right-of-way, even if they're jaywalking.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by dec0dedab0de on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:18PM (#16691277)
Jaywalking means they were walking when they did not have the right of way.

However, whether or not a driver is civilly liable for an accident usually doesn't even care about the right of way. For example, if a pedestrian is standing in the middle of the road attempting to block traffic. They have no right to be there, however, it is not ok to run them over.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by frgtpsswrdlame on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:21PM (#16690718)
They were crossing a low speed, brightly lit street.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by always_good on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:52PM (#16691033)
It's a gamble that jaywalkers lose every year.

When you're going to jaywalk, ensure that the next car is far enough away to where it doesn't matter if they stop. That's the correct way that would've saved this person's life without any further analysis.

I'm taking issue with this:

>that person died for no good reason beyond Uber rushing tech out the door before it was ready

Well, no. They died because they lost their gamble on an unguided crossing where the oncoming car did not stop.

We are now analyzing why the car didn't stop, but notice how no charges were pressed.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wpietri on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:57PM (#16692183)
No charges were filed yet, but that's unlikely to happen until after the NTSB report.

It's true that jaywalking is a gamble, but so is crossing a street with the light. Leaving the house is a gamble. That doesn't mean we can blame the victim of a collision for leaving the house. It can be simultaneously true that A) jaywalking is not always a great idea, and B) the Uber car should have avoided this collision.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by thrownaway954 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:17PM (#16691268)
i agree with you 10,000%. i think everyone is so concerned about why the car didn't stop, they forget that jaywalking or running out into the middle of the road is a gamble always.

i wonder... if the person crossing had been behind an obstruction and stepped out right in front of the car, would everyone still blame the car or the driver for hitting the person crossing?

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by jyrkesh on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:03PM (#16691117)
Did you watch the video? I think any decent self-driving tech would've seen her, but I highly contend with OP's assertion that an "alert human" would have stopped in time. The road was very dark, and she came out of nowhere.

If the car was speeding, you might be able to make that argument, but I don't think anyone has made that claim yet.

Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by wpietri on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:59PM (#16692198)
Perhaps you would be so kind as to contend with what I actually said. I did not actually say a human would have stopped in time. I said a human would have braked and swerved.
Re:Mobileye says its software would have seen pedestrian in ... by frgtpsswrdlame on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:19PM (#16691861)
The video is misrepresentative of the actual road conditions.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/police-chief-said-uber-...