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Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vijaybritto on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:13AM (#16685178)
Is lobbying really helpful for the people in the US? For me, it looks like it always benefits the companies and the politicians. Lobbying is illegal in many countries. Why is it allowed there? Under what thoughts? Can someone explain, please?

EDIT: Quickly checked Google. An Investopedia article argues that it's not bribery because it benefits everyone in the country. But we can see that it's always so that the companies make more money right? Only the rich keep getting more money. Also, the article seems to have been written by a lobbying enthusiast!

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @12:32AM (#16685265)
> Is lobbying really helpful for the people in the US?

The EFF [1] and ACLU [2] are lobbyists. We have a problem in the U.S. with money and politics, but lobbying per se is a natural consequence of the First Amendmenr.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Frontier_Foundati...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Uni...

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by r00fus on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:01AM (#16685394)
That non-profits play the lobbying game only means that lobbying has won.

I'm pretty sure if you asked them EFF and ACLU would support restrictions on lobbying - they can't compete against billions of dollars funded by well funded corporations.

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by sosborn on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:07AM (#16685419)
> they can't compete against billions of dollars funded by well funded corporations.

How would getting rid of lobbying change that equation? If lobbying was gone, what mechanism would be used to discuss issues with legislators?

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by wvenable on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:51AM (#16685648)
It's literally the job of legislators to discuss issues with stakeholders to create or repeal laws or regulations. Without lobbying, do you expect politicians to just sit in their offices all day doing nothing?
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vkou on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:56AM (#16685668)
I expect them to not do so in a pay-to-play manner.

As it is, requests for public comment - the feedback to them goes straight into the paper shredder, but if you throw a bit of money towards the re-election fund, you can write the legislature.

It's corruption, pure and simple.

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by sosborn on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:35AM (#16686186)
How is lobbying pay-to-play?
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vijaybritto on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:04AM (#16685701)
Yes, they should do their jobs without any extra nudging I suppose?
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:11AM (#16685744)
> they should do their jobs without any extra nudging I suppose?

Consider a U.S. Senator representing Arkansas considering a bill regulating nuclear energy. The Senator is no expert in nukes. How should he determine to whom to speak? If a renowned nuclear physicist in California wants to speak with the Senator, should that be banned?

Lobbying, i.e. people--individually or in assembly--expressing their political views to elected leaders, is an inherent side effect of the First Amendment. (And, I'd argue, of democracy.)

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vijaybritto on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:23AM (#16685792)
But there are well-functioning Democracies in Europe without any sort of lobbying right? Bringing in money automatically removes a ton of people right? The people needing reforms most are the poor and the money makes it impossible for them to have a voice!
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by sosborn on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:19AM (#16686081)
It might not be called lobbying, but I assure you equivalents exist. The thing is that most people think that lobbying = bribery. It simply isn’t true.

The process can be corrupted, but that is true regardless of the vehicle.

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by wvenable on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:20AM (#16685782)
Why is money involved, though?
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:29AM (#16685820)
> Why is money involved, though?

Two factors over which we don't have a national consensus.

One: the line between political and non-political speech is tough to draw. If I write a blog about the minimum wage, is that political? What if I do it full time? Now I hire a copy editor--is that political spending? What if the blog is openly--and intentionally--partisan?

Two: a metric to determine the degree to which money is a factor in a given piece of speech. Say I paint a political mural on my house's public-facing wall. Is the paint political spending? What if I hire someone to paint it for me, but based on my design? What if my neighbor lets me paint her house? What if my other neighbor, to whom I give the oranges from my orange tree every year, lets me do the same? What if I commission the art but paint it myself?

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by xab9 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:44AM (#16685602)
In countries where lobbying is illegal I'm pretty sure there are other more (or less?) democratic processes in place to communicate the needs of the people and business be that big or small.
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by r00fus on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:25AM (#16685509)
They would rely on mobilized grassroots action. Which would be far more effective if we weren't getting shouted out of the room by lobbyists in the first place.
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vijaybritto on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:58AM (#16685678)
The examples of EFF and ACLU are okay and I'm pretty sure that there are hundreds of well intended lobbying groups in the US. But, I'm often confused by the lack of control or checks for private players with a lot of money like for example, Intuit which blocks easy tax return filing, NRA which blocks gun control/ban, Facebook which blocks privacy bill, etc., There must be so many other examples that an outsider like me cannot comprehend or understand. So how come this is allowed without any protest? It looks like the first amendment is being used to disguise crony capitalism!
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by neltnerb on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:13AM (#16685753)
Yes, it is hard to explain. Something about those companies employee shareholders individually having free speech rights via the company that they own. It was a recent change.

I don't really mind companies lobbying for things, I suspect that it has more good than bad from open lines of communication of needs from the business community. But the balance has to be right. It shouldn't be one company drowning out a million people.

The NRA is at least made up of real human members. Who shockingly donated $85M to them in since 2005. I may dislike their point of view, but they certainly deserve to be able to lobby.

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by vijaybritto on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:20AM (#16685777)
People get killed in thousands because of them. I'm not sure if they should enjoy this kind of a freedom!
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by colordrops on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @02:25AM (#16685805)
How exactly is it a natural consequence of the first amendment?
Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by username223 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:01AM (#16685393)
It's not just the first amendment, but a three-step failure: (1) government can't restrict people's speech (first amendment); (2) for-profit corporations are "people"; (3) money is speech. That gave us Citizens United[1], and as long as politicians are a bit more subtle than Duke Cunningham[2], it's allowed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham#/media/File:Du...

Re:Facebook–while it apologizes for scandal–funds campaign t... by gt_ on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @01:39AM (#16685574)
This is helpful for illustrating the manipulative nature of a society which has normalized unexplainable support of brands and advertising.

Of course, the reasons to believe (2) and (3) were enacted as a means to a different end are bottomless. They were accomplished by undermining our cultural, emotional, existential perceptions of the world we live in and depleting our capacity to make intelligent decisions.

How was this accomplished? By advertising; the same things motivating Facebook’s entire business model. (and Google’s)

Our campaign financing norms are absurd, and have unruprisingly ruining our whole political complex.