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Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by weego on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @07:49AM (#16637179)
I mean, the article covers the research and all so maybe I'm just out of my depth... but I can't help feeling like there's a fair bit of tech astrology going on here.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by vbo on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:14AM (#16637341)
Not necessarily. It should be fairly straightforward to build correlations like "People who like Breitbart are likely to vote Trump" (and less obvious ones) to help target specifically crafted ads to the people who are most likely to respond positively to them. It's not rocket science, but effective. Basically demographics on steroids.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by AznHisoka on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:17AM (#16637363)
Isnt this just simply marketing/targeted advertising? There is no voodoo or psychographics going on here.

Honestly, I think people are giving Cambridge way too much credit.

I have seen enough overblown promises in the big data, AI, <insert buzz word> industry to know people just make things sound more innovative than it really is.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by verylittlemeat on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:54AM (#16637575)
I agree with you.

People seem to be equating a political profile and targeted advertising with a brain ray that makes people pull the lever for a funded candidate.

Just to take one high level example: Facebook was still "thefacebook" and closed to the public by the time George W. Bush was elected to the white house for a second term. How can we honestly winkwink/nudgenudge a "stolen election" at the feet of facebook or CA when clearly liberal politics were defeated in 2000/2004 with standard political rhetoric? Why are we giving facebook/CA credit for having so much political power?

I hate to use such a broad lens for the recent incident and I hope I'm communicating what I'm intending to here. I just don't see how somehow this incident "changed everything" or even changed much of anything when you look at the history how campaigns get people to vote for their candidate.

People don't want to hear this but targeted memes didn't make people anti-abortion or pro-nazi or whatever conserative boogey-man you pick. Conservative voters are people not a pathology. You may not like their views or the way they vote but this whole "people who don't think the way I do are brainwashed" thing has to go. You're buying that argument at your own peril because conservatives aren't going anywhere.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by RyanZAG on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:34AM (#16637841)
With the new ease of access to people with opinions different from your own, most people now require some self-consistent reason for not interacting with them and their views. The idea that other rational people can have differing views from our own is deeply unsettling as it allows for the possibility that our own views are incorrect.

Pre-social media, this was easy enough: the people with different opinions were just less educated or less informed, and once they became informed they would hold the same views that we do. Social media changed all that by bringing those with different views into direct confrontation where you could immediately connect with someone with different views to your own and educate or inform them.

This fails to work. As soon as we try that, we quickly realize that those with other views are already informed and have just taken a different judgement. So we're left with the problem: either our views are wrong or their views are wrong. Deeply concerning as it's just as likely to be our own views. The only solution then is to shift the blame - it's not our fault or people with other views at fault: it's that there are 'evil actors' working to 'brainwash' people. Therefore our views are correct, and it's just people with other views who have been brainwashed. Simple and clean, no need for self reflection or difficult questions.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by bdamm on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @12:47PM (#16639893)
Your conclusion is too closed. There are in fact people who are willing to use "nefarious" techniques to boost exposure to marginal ideas to those who may be in a position to swing opinion, or to perform damage control specifically towards those who may be swayed.

That's outside of this bigger experience we're all having about the necessity of respect towards those who hold different opinions and can demonstrate a systematic world view to get there.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by 220V_USKettle on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:45AM (#16637895)
I think the more nefarious purpose is to identify these people as part of a voter supression campaign.

So, it isn't to motivate somebody to vote for a particular candidate, but to not vote, or prevent the possibility of voting.

Target the opposition, if you will.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by verylittlemeat on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:58AM (#16638001)
I think this is an interesting perspective and worth looking into. For example, targeting democrats in 2016 by assuring them that the election is in the bag so they're less likely to show up to vote.

Though I still think it's necessary to fight the temptation to believe such a campaign is as easy or effective as our conspiratorial nature might want us to believe.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by lurquer on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @11:37PM (#16645494)
The point of this is to compel Facebook to send notifications to millions of users stating that their personal information was wrongfully used by Trump, et al. It's a campaign tactic by the Democrats: use the gov't (FTC) to force Facebook to send authoritative messages to users shortly before the election this fall badmouthing the opposition. Free advertising. Very clever. Why pay for ads when you can compel Facebook to do it for free?
[dead]
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by verylittlemeat on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:38AM (#16637864)
FYI I identify and vote as a liberal. Tilting at windmills like facebook/CA feels great for the ego but I'm trying to explain that it has nothing to do with why people vote a certain way. This is all a big sideshow to assuage the tender injury democrats are suffering from a Trump whitehouse.

So if you wish then let the sideshow be spectacular. Let facebook be the scapegoat and social media be regulated. When all of that and a smug attitude does nothing to stop global warming or another conservative president in the future don't be surprised.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by namdas on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:08AM (#16637673)
I think part of the issue is the way FB allows you to use 'dark' posts that are hidden from public view, and also to set up multiple anonymous pages for your ad campaigns.

Together this means you can not only use laser targeted advertising, but show ads to one group you know will appeal, without a second group who would be put off by the message ever being aware of it.

There is also the potential to break rules on election advertising and false claims as the only people to see your ad are the small, well targeted group and an FB reviewer who is checking the ad against their own T&Cs, not the electoral rules of the country the campaign is in.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by majormajor on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @12:10PM (#16639417)
The second point is interesting and worth looking at further, but I'm less sympathetic to the arguments about this that boil down to "the Trump campaign was more clever than us and made better use of the tools!"

You could have some level of legal oversight (we've never had 100% perfect coverage) without eliminating the use of programmatic targeting.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by 220V_USKettle on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:46AM (#16637909)
Excellent points.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by pohl on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @07:59PM (#16643743)
The OCEAN model mentioned by the CA exec (Nix) was originally based on factor analysis, not ML. The key criticism of factor analysis is just that one can’t infer causality, but in an application like this no one cares about causation — only what works. I’m inclined to to think the Mercers got some ROI here.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by edf13 on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @12:11PM (#16639428)
It is targeted advertising... but more than that...

It was targeted miss-information - directly at the people they needed to vote.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by FLUX-YOU on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:13AM (#16637709)
You can also use the old fashioned stuff in combination with social media data.

>In focus groups arranged to test messages for the 2014 midterms, these voters responded to calls for building a new wall to block the entry of illegal immigrants, to reforms intended the “drain the swamp” of Washington’s entrenched political community and to thinly veiled forms of racism toward African Americans called “race realism,” he recounted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bannon-oversaw-cambr...

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by weego on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @01:08PM (#16640149)
Thats kind of my point I guess though I didn't expand on it. They are pitching this like the scraping etc was 'subverting democracy' blah blah... but my contention is they were just doing the kinds of marketing that people know has terrible accuracy and return on investment. Maybe it's the bribery and hookers that were the bits that worked.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by kdelok on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:14AM (#16637334)
I went to uni with the guy who didn't share his stuff with Cambridge Analytica (Kosinski). He presented the likes -> OCEAN analysis and it was pretty compelling (and frightening) stuff.

In particular, with enough likes, it could deduce things such as gender, race and sexual orientation. Obviously in the wrong contexts, this information is extremely sensitive.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by EB-Barrington on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:22AM (#16637394)
I remember posting a random paragraph of text I had previously created into an "analyser" on the Cambridge Analytica website - as an alternative to giving Cambridge Analytica access to my FB profile.

It then accurately deduced my gender, race, sexual orientation, age group, and other key data - all from a single paragraph.

No "likes" required anymore.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by laretluval on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:18AM (#16637736)
Would it have been inaccurate for you if it was just guessing based on base rates?
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by pacala on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @10:31AM (#16638262)
OCEAN stands for Openness, Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism. Also known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by narrowingorbits on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @11:50AM (#16639141)
*Conscientiousness
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by pacala on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @11:52AM (#16639172)
Fixed, thanks!
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by mc32 on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @11:17AM (#16638748)
Maybe the "genius", if it can be called that was FB only allowing likes, rather than dislikes. You have to really agree with something to like it, as the default is to not react, and when you do react, most energy is to disapprove of something (for example, negative feedback, online reviews, etc.), so if someone gives something positive feedback it must have nonmarginal significance.

That said, the conclusions are very much expected. If i know what you like, i can know what kind of person you might be.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by AznHisoka on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:19AM (#16637372)
Gender and race doesnt seem very farfetched. You can get halfway there with just the name of a person. Add location and you’re almost there.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by EB-Barrington on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:27AM (#16637425)
FYI - I should have added, my name was never given, nor was any other "personal" information.

Nothing more was provided other than a paragraph of text I had previously written, the contents of which had nothing to do with me personally.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by vbo on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:37AM (#16637479)
They might've extracted useful information from your IP address/geolocation or your useragent, ie maybe figuring out you're accessing the site from tech company X's network. Given tech companies ratio of male to female employees, they may have been able to infer you are male. Also, tech companies pay well, so that's another information nugget about you, etc. The more signals they have, the more precise the outcome.
Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by EB-Barrington on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:47AM (#16637539)
Yes, agree. So I should add, just for discussion:

1) I'm self employed. 2) I'm always connected via a VPN connected to a continent that isn't my home continent. 3) I haven't connected to the internet via a "company" network in over five years.

I could infer that you are male from the way you type, and I guess you're somewhere between 25 and 35. I haven't looked up your username or anything else, it's just a "feeling".

Given millions of paragraphs of text linked to millions of known demographic and other data points (provided by Facebook), a paragraph is all a well-tuned system would need to make quite accurate assumptions about the person who typed the paragraph.

Again, likes are not required anymore.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by RyanZAG on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:50AM (#16637940)
> I could infer that you are male from the way you type, and I guess you're somewhere between 25 and 35. I haven't looked up your username or anything else, it's just a "feeling".

I think you only really need one or two obvious tells for something like that. The guy you replied to used ", etc.". I think that alone puts him into the bracket you've given, so I'm fairly sure you're correct here. Looking forward to hearing if you are.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by vbo on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @11:11AM (#16638669)
You could also do sentiment analysis on your dataset and link it to likes. Basically the more signals you have the more you can narrow down your classifications or correlations.

Btw, your inference is correct. Course, one could argue that it is informed by 25-35 males being one of the most common demographics on HN.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by finnthehuman on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:15AM (#16637344)
I can't help feeling like there's a fair bit of tech astrology going on here

Perfection is a red herring, as long as it's more accurate than the alternatives people will want to use it.

Re:Researchers Learned to Use Facebook ‘Likes’ to Sway Your ... by blablabla123 on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @09:23AM (#16637769)
Or maybe tech combined with astrology.

FWIW in retrospect I'm happy that already years ago I stripped my Facebook account to the bare minimum