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Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:10PM (#16633682)
> That's a pretty clear fail.

And yet the police were so quick to say that camera footage indicates that Uber was likely not at fault. It was so quick that it makes me inclined to think it's pretty obvious. However, after the SF Chronicle published its exclusive interview with the Tempe's chief of police, the Tempe Police PR person had to issue a statement that, "Tempe Police Department does not determine fault in vehicular collisions."

I'm not one to believe in conspiracies or to automatically suspect shadowy influence, so I want to believe that the the camera footage seems to argue that this was an unavoidable accident. But the evidence released so far argues against that, regardless of whether the victim's crossing was illegal or not. And why are the police making a judgment on this so soon in the first place, especially when the decision will be made by county law officials, and ostensibly after referring to Uber's full suite of sensor data?

https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/20/uber-fault-pedestrian-fa...

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by phyzome on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:28PM (#16633801)
I mean... the police just make shit up all the time. And Arizona was very happy to attract Uber with their regulation-free state law.

The fact that they came out with a statement instead of saying "we don't comment on ongoing investigations" makes it even more shady.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:35PM (#16634843)
I don't agree with the sentiment that it happens all the time (but don't disagree that it's happened more than a few times), but I do think police are much less likely to make something up if they know (and have seen) the camera evidence. No point in saying something (the day after the incident) that can so easily be contradicted later.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by stevenwoo on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:45PM (#16634250)
The first bombing victim in Austin was one of the first suspects of the police in his own bombing.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by stevenwoo on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @02:52AM (#16636068)
http://foxsanantonio.com/news/local/first-bombing-victims-fa...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/police-treated-first-austin-bo...

The police in Georgetown about half an hour north of Austin went with his gut in one murder case - "it has to be someone the victim knew" and ignored physical evidence at the scene and the eyewitness testimony of the murder victim's son. Then the prosecutor kept working against the accused for the next 25 years and suppressed evidence. https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-innocent-man-part-...

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by sdrothrock on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:22PM (#16633762)
> And yet the police were so quick to say that camera footage indicates that Uber was likely not at fault.

I was surprised at that -- it doesn't seem to me that the police would have the technical knowledge of Uber's hardware and algorithms to categorically state that, let alone so quickly.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by sushisource on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:35PM (#16633843)
Well, if you saw that video and it really did show a < 1 second time between the pedestrian becoming visible and being hit, then the autonomous systems don't matter at all. That accident is physically impossible to prevent in that car.

So whether or not the police understand self-driving systems is not relevant to the fundamental physics problem. The key question is how long was the ped visible.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by stefan_ on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:46PM (#16633912)
By the time that pedestrian has even traversed a single lane, the LIDAR on top has generated gigabytes of point cloud data showing her moving, assuming constant velocity of both car and ped, on a straightforward collision path.

I don't see how from a single forward-looking camera you want to deduce this crash was "physically impossible". That isn't even half of what we expect from human drivers. We expect them to swivel their head.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by sushisource on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @01:24PM (#16640371)
Where did I say just "camera"? By visible I mean visible in any way to the systems.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by cesarb on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:45PM (#16633905)
"The pedestrian becoming visible" would be to the video cameras. If the vehicle has other sensors (LIDAR, RADAR, etc), how sooner/later would the pedestrian be visible to these sensors? Would it be possible to judge that by looking solely at the dashcam? Would the sensors ignore the pedestrian as a false positive in these circumstances?
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:26PM (#16634143)
That's what I wonder. Yes, it has LIDAR etc. But there was this comment yesterday by arbie:[0]

> Sensor Fusion typically merges LiDAR with stereoscopic camera feeds, the latter requiring ambient light.

So might LIDAR data get de-emphasized when there's too little light for the cameras?

0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16619917

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by dpark on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:38PM (#16635202)
If there’s not enough light for the cameras, LIDAR would get emphasized, not de-emphasized.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @03:20AM (#16636164)
Thanks. So in this case, how come the woman wasn't identified based on the LIDAR data?
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by dpark on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @08:33AM (#16637461)
No idea
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by vonmoltke on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:55PM (#16634311)
I don't understand that comment. "Sensor fusion" is the integration of data from two or more different sensors. It doesn't matter what those sensors are. They don't even have to be different types of sensors.

It may well be that the Uber cars only have LIDAR and optical, but that doesn't have anything to do with sensor fusion.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by sushisource on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @01:25PM (#16640383)
I didn't mean just visible as in visible light visible - I mean detected in any way by the systems.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by dwighttk on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:23PM (#16634130)
<1 second between becoming visible (on the left side of the vehicle) and being hit by the right side of the vehicle doesn't seem likely.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:59PM (#16633975)
An accident may be physically impossible to prevent, but that's not the only standard. Initial reports (from the police) say that Uber AV did not even brake. Is not braking at all within a 1 second window the performance touted by AV's detection and braking system?
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by to3m on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:14PM (#16634072)
"ped"?
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by grzm on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:15PM (#16634079)
pedestrian
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Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by grzm on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:20PM (#16634110)
Which you follow up with a vulgarity? Come on. Be better than that. If your goal is to improve online discourse, lead by example.
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Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:38PM (#16634211)
I don't see how "ped" is necessarily an offensive abbreviation (though it's one that normally isn't used), so I don't think you're justified in believing that the commenter is trying to dehumanize the victim.
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Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by prawn on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:49PM (#16634268)
There are "PED XING" signs in the US for pedestrian crossings. I don't think it's considered disparaging.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ped+xing&source=lnms&tbm=...

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Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by emj on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @04:29AM (#16636390)
As a non native speaker I'm reacting to the use of Ped as well, that paired with the obvious victim blaming that seems to be thrown around a lot, but to a much lesser extent here than in other forums discussing this issue.

Driving is a sensitive subject, people take it personal trying to do generalizations about drivers is just going to land you in a land of troubles, almost worse than profanity.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by bfuller on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:14PM (#16634430)
lol seems like your sense of humor is not being well received here
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by to3m on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:17PM (#16634448)
Well it's more sideways, perhaps even caustic, something like that, I'd say, rather than humorous per se.

Still... stiff upper lip. Though I can't believe I'm getting downvoted for reminding people not to kill anybody while behind the wheel :-o

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by kaitai on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:33PM (#16634835)
You're upset for someone using the word "ped" for pedestrian while using a word that's got a dictionary definition of being vulgar and offensive for women? I have to say I'm rather confused. I feel I'm being trolled.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:41PM (#16634886)
Actually, in UK slang, that refers to someone who's being stupid. And still, everyone knows what it means in the US, I believe.

Edit: Sorry about the ambiguity. I wan't referring to "ped". But rather to the slang that's offensive to women.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Wednesday March 21, 2018 @12:08AM (#16635381)
Upon reflection, I wonder where that British term comes from. Maybe it basically means "woman". Reflecting the slur that women are stupid. So it's still sexist, albeit not as vulgar as the US term.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by hndamien on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:35PM (#16635186)
Derived from pedant I believe.

noun a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:44PM (#16635241)
Sorry, I was ambiguous. I meant the other slang.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by to3m on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:53PM (#16634949)
Bah... my intent was certainly to be vulgar, and I stand by that. But if it's going to be interpreted as specifically offensive towards women (an implication not present in UK English) then I'll certainly apologise to all that were thus offended, because that was not part of the plan.

Looks like it's too late to delete it, so we're stuck with it forever.

Please still do drive carefully!

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:26PM (#16635133)
I'm a male, but I do think it's an offensive term for women in the U.S., despite its more casual usage in the UK. The average female reader would be inclined to think that such slurs -- and their anti-female sentiment -- were considered OK here.

It's too late to delete but I think it's worth it (for future readers) to say that offense isn't intended, and that that word is frowned upon by most HN users and mods.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by sulam on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:11PM (#16634730)
You should consider they might be downvoting you for other reasons other than a hard to believe one.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:38PM (#16634869)
Arguably, you're getting downvoted for abrasiveness and name calling.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by lsaferite on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:28PM (#16633797)
I fall more into the "AZ wants the SDC companies in state and having a death due to a SDC would hamper that with the public" camp. Better to find the SDC not at fault and save face.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by giobox on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:15PM (#16634076)
If it falls to a question of stopping distances, self driving vehicles are not really practically different from any other car, save perhaps for the ability to reduce the reaction time phase of stopping. I can certainly imagine there will be scenarios in which experienced traffic cops can make a reasonable determination, especially if the speed, distances, locations etc of the car and pedestrian are known.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by djsumdog on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:04PM (#16635003)
It's all speculation until we get a release of the actual video footage from the car. This is ridiculous. The NTSB/police need to release the actual footage to dispel speculation. We have actual evidence of exactly what happened and yet no one outside of the investigators and Uber can see it.
Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by danso on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:09PM (#16635044)
NTSB investigation has begun and it make take a few weeks:

https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/status/976215176323194880

I do think discussion is warranted because the Tempe Police have gone out of their way to share details and preliminary judgments about the case. Some of these details have been inaccurate, both for and against Uber's favor. But Tempe police officials are already going out of their way to downplay what their chief claimed:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/federal-agencies-investi...

> Glover downplayed Moir's statements, saying some were taken "out of context" by the Chronicle. The chief disagrees with the Chronicle's headline, "Tempe police chief says early probe shows no fault by Uber," Glover said.

Re:Police Say Video Shows Woman Stepped Suddenly in Front of... by mirimir on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:19PM (#16633747)
It's probably just PR.